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Haven't found Samuel Martin senior senior on the 1841 yet, but he must have been around as his son, Samuel, was christened in 1845 (10 years old at the time). The baptism records for his children William and Ellen, show that he was a Stay Maker.

What do you think of this! 1851 census - Portsea

Samuel Martin - head - 45 - stay maker - Whitechapel
Sarah Martin - wife - 21 - Stepney
Edwin Martin - son - 1 - Rotherhithe

He's probably knocked a few years off his age to impress his young wife.

Lost for Words - I thought I was persistant, but that's very impresive. You can't find them on the 1881 can you?

Maxine - without the certificates this is guess work, but this seems very likely.

1855 - Samuel Martin married Elizabeth Higgins in Bethnal Green.

On 1851 census - Elizabeth Higgins (born 1835 St.George in the East) was living with her parents and siblings in Whitechapel. She was working as a Parasol Maker. This is the job Samuel's wife had in 1871 - so a very plausible match. Everything matches. Also, her father's name was William, which is the name they gave to the eldest son.

So Maxine, to answer your original questions - Matilda's parents were Samuel Alfred Martin (or Alfred Samuel Martin) and Matilda Lehan. His only siblings that we've found so far are William Henry b.1857 and Louisa b.1865.

Matilda Lehan's parents are William Lehan and Priscilla Phillips (who was born in Hampshire).

Samuel (Alfred) Martin's parents are Samuel Martin and Elizabeth Higgins.

Was Louisa the possible sister that you were asking about, or do you think there's another one?

louisa was the possible sister,you guys ,this is great stuff,you have managed to do alot of digging,thankyou very much indeed,sorry i havent been online this morning,it was my youngests sons first day at nursery school and all the parents had to stay.A big thankyou for your time and brilliant efforts to christina and lost for words!!! maxine

can you explain info about samuel senior senior and sarah martin,thankyou ,then i can put an end to it and put it all in my tree,after all ,you are the brains in this!!!!! you can add it to my bill!!! maxine

In a rush as usual, but just wanted to tell you that I saw this marriage certificate today. This must confirm that your Gt.grandmother, Matilda's, grandmother must have been Elizabeth Higgins.

23.12.1855 St. Matthews, Bethnal Green

Marriage took place between Samuel Martin - batchelor - tobacco shipper - living at 9, Mary Ann Terrace - father: Samuel Martin a stay maker

and Elizabeth Higgins - spinster - 9, Mary Ann Terrace - father: William Higgins a carpenter

Both of full age

christina,i think youve found all there is to find.....then you find some more,this is really great stuff,im meeting up with my aunt stella in a few weeks,she will be amazed at all this stuff youve found,she will hopefully be able to fill in a few gaps and shes bringing some photos which will be the icing on the cake!! i only recently found my aunt on this site and i saw her for the first time in 22 years and met my cousin again who was a baby last time we met,she will love all this info,our whole family is estranged so thankyou very very much christina.maxine

How lovely to have met up with your aunt and cousin again! Now you'll be kept even busier, sorting this lot out to make sense for her.

Just to clarify the marriage certificate I saw yesterday - I'm sure it's them as they were living in Mary Ann Terrace, and on the 1861 census they were living in Mary Ann Street.

Samuel Martin (senior) who was born c.1835 in Whitechapel: The only Samuel Martin I could find to fit him was living with his mother, Elizabeth, and siblings William, Ellen and Louisa in Whitechapel. I found christenings for a Samuel Martin b.1835, Ellen Martin b.1829 and William Martin b.1826 at St.Marys, Whitechapel. All of them had the parents Samuel and Elizabeth Martin. Their father was down as a Stay Maker.

The only Samuel Martin (Stay Maker) I could find on the 1851 census was living in Portsea with a 21 year old wife, and 1 year old son, Edwin. By 1861 they have moved to Bermondsey:

1861 census

Samuel Martin - head - 50 - stay maker - Whitechapel
Sarah Martin - wife - 31 - Stepney
Edwin Martin - son -11 - Rotherhithe
Henry Martin - son -6 - Southwark
George Martin - son - 4 - Bermondsey
Charles Martin - son - 5 mons. - Southwark

Samuel knocks 5 years off his age with every census. Probably to close the gap between himself and his wife.

I hope this all makes sense to you now. Don't hesitate to ask if it doesn't.

You'll be able to trace some of these back on the censuses now, and maybe go back another one or two generations. Also, a couple of them show up on the IGI on familysearch.org

help ! which samuel married a sarah,thanks maxine