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Hi Everyone
but you can still PM me

Alice Hill has been giving my a brick wall for some time now, as I have been unable to find her at all, and I mean her Birth.
I have now ordered her marriage certificate to find her age.

She was married on July28 1900, she married George Morgan, they both was 22 years of age, their father names are the same they are both George Morgan and Hill.

I have her residence at Otford ? just a scribble sorry the hand writting is really bad.

Thanks
Samantha

you will need to check indexs from around 1875

but also check under mothers maiden name

i had a nightmare finding my grandmother until i checked under her mothers maiden name and found her.


look for the family on census that should give her place of birth

A Small prob thats whats been holding me up she is so hard to find I only have her fathers name thats hill and stop no more thats why i got her marriage to find her age hoping that would bring a step closer

do you have her on the 1901 census with george

it should give her place of birth

i thought ild try to find her on the 1901 censusnow shes married and still no luck

Hiya
what professions are on the cert?
Sam

george morgan 22, is a laboren, on his daughter birth queenie it also says a dock laboren? spelling cant read

What about their fathers professions also, when & where was Queenie born?

the same but without the dock in it

PART ONE - extracts from the passenger lists thread, where we were off-topic. ;-)

Samantha

Request review
13th September 2008 11:32
Hi Lynne

Im stuck I've asked for help trying to find a Alice Hill B'Day, but no success, she was married to George Charles Morgan who I am also unable to find, they are the parents of my grandmother Queenie Florence Morgan who marrid into Dowsett, she married my grandfather William Percy Dowsett.

I only have Queenie's B'cert, she was born 10 Feb 1915. the add on the cert is Tilbury, Orsett district in the county of Essex.

any help would be fab.

Samantha

------------------------
Mark_of_Four_(Counties)

Request review
13th September 2008 13:59
Samantha,

I searched on Ancestry... and searched and searched... I specified things and it still finds too much.

15 seconds on free BMD and I get this result straight away. I don't understand it.



Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1900 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cracknell Harry W. Ham 4a 114
Gregory Ada W. Ham 4a 114
Hill Alice W. Ham 4a 114
Morgan George W.Ham 4a 114


Any good to you?

Usual health warning applies about the sequence of names on the BMD display not being an indication of who married whom. You have Queenies birth cert so you already know.


hth

Mark

------------------------------------

Samantha 13th September 2008 16:09

Hi Mark

I am trying so hard to find either george or alice birth or death and i just keep hitting a brick wall, i also have been giving that marriage but no luck on the birth side, i have an address on queenie B'Cert if that would be any help?

Regards
Samantha

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PART TWO - recent findings.
------------------------------------

NEW 22/09/08 @ 21:38

Here's a Hill family of West Ham (where the 1900 marriage was). The (possible) father is a Widower in the 1891 so the names here are all siblings and "Susama" would be her grandmother (George's mother).

On the census image, George is listed as "Bricklayer's labourer, so check that against the Alice/George Morgan marriage cert.

1891 England Census about George Hill
Name: George Hill
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Susama
Gender: Male
Where born: Datchet, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Hill 11 (born London St. Lukes)
George Hill 40 (born Bucks Datchett)
George R Hill 5 (born London Camden Town)
Helen A Hill 10 (born Kent Faverhsam)
James C Hill 8 (London Wapping , might be James G.)
Martha Hill 6 (born London Shoreditch)
Susama Hill 60 (born Bucks Hamersham) {Amersham now?}


It's wierd that his children are born all over the place. Maybe he has to move all the time, in his line of work?


22:00
Not much joy looking in 1901, so far.


Mark

So they are all labourers.......... They're not very helpful are they...lol

What about Queenie, date & place of birth

Mark, why Placeholder??
I'll stop looking in that case

no hahah, no help at all simply they thought was best hahaha.

queenie was born in orsett, sub district of grays.

she was born 22 january 1915, her address was in tilbury full name queenie florence morgan

I have been still looking on census and my god im stuck, i mean what happened to her taken by aliens or something hahahaha

Hi Yeah

On the marriage certi it doesnt state what type of labourer he is, it just simply labourer, no help i know

Hi

I have just looked at queenie marriage certi and her father profession on it says tinsmith it looks like,

she was married de 26 1940 living in prittlewell

Hi Samantha,


Can we, briefly, go back to first principles?

How did you come by Queenie's birth certificate?

Was it passed down to you through family or did you order it from GRO?


I'm looking at freeBMD and I can find no index entry for Queenie Morgan, mother maiden name Hill, between Mar 1914 and Dec 1938.

I also need to know if "Queenie" was a nickname, or if she was actually christened with that name.


Also, we were going to compare the home addresses on Queenie's 1915 birth cert and the bride/groom home addresses on the 1900 marriage cert. I realise the handwriting is bad but tell us what you think they say.


regards,

Mark

EDIT: I just found this in 1901-specific search results
Alice Morgan
born abt 1873 Chelsea, London, England
Relation Daughter-in-law
Residence Milton, Kent

but the page wouldn't display when I clicked on View Record. In fact the whole Ancestry site has just frozen up. I have to nip to the shops, so I'll be back in half an hour for another go.

EDIT#2
That turned out to be a false lead. Alice married to a Charles Morgan, living in Charles' father's household. Sorry for false alarm.

Hi Mark

Right long story, I started all of this trying to find my father who i havent seen since i was about 2, but it ended up giving up on that and just find out about my history line.

I found my dad certi with help from here ordered it and from there i got his parents name and his mother is queenie, so from there i also got help from here to find her birth, i ordered that and so.

lets start with her B'Cert.

her name appares as
First Name - Florence
Second Name - Queenie
Last Name - Florence

Born - Orsett, Grays in the Country of Essex.

Father Name - George Morgan
Morther Name - Alice Morgan formaly Hill.

Address at birth - 1 luibee road, chadwell, st mary, tilbury, v.d.? i hope i have read the spelling right.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next Her marriage certi

First Name - Queenie
Second Name - Florence
Last Name - Morgan

Married De 26th 1940 in prittlewell in the county of essex.

she is 25 years of age and a spinster.

address at marriage is - 27 colchester close, prittlewell.

father name - George Charles Morgan, tinsmith.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

from there i got stuck then you helped and i order george and alice marriage.

Married 1900 in the parish church in the parish of holy trinty in the county of essex.

date of marriage july 28 1900.
alice and george are both 22 years of age, she has no rank of profession, her address looks like otford i can not make the other bit out at all.

george looks as if his address is grown hill, dam thats the best i can do on that as well.

I hope thats enough info to help you.

Thank you
Samantha

Hi Samantha,

Now I'm worried. You say you've not seen your father since the age of 2?

Personally, I can't recall anything earlier than about age 4, so I doubt you would even recognise him unless there are still photos of him about the house.

I said 'first principles', but I should have spelt it out less ambiguously.

1) Your own birth certificate:- original in your possession or you ordered a copy for yourself?

2) Your parents' marriage cert:- again, original passed to you or ordered from GRO?


DO NOT post their details on the forum, or in PM. Just re-examine them carefully and satisfy yourself that you ordered the birth certificate for the right man.

While I await your reply, I'll run some more searches. Queenie Florence (or Florence Queenie) Morgan marries Mr X in 1940-ish, where X is your dad's surname.


regards,


Mark

Samantha,

I am at a loss as to how your previous forum helpers were able to obtain an order number for a 1940 marriage certificate.

I tried the GR search myself, on both "Queenie Morgan" and "Florence Morgan" and the most recent marriage entry it could find was 1915 - the year of her birth. Doh!

freeBMD only has browseable index images up to 1935 available at the moment, so the transcription of 1940 into their database cannot have happened yet, I guess.

Ancestry gets their index data from freeBMD (UK_BMD) so, if anything, it's even less up to date (there's a data transfer catch-up about once a month, I think).

So, did the person who gave you the 1940 cert order number say they were doing the search from inside the actual Essex office, or the main London family history centre?



Mark