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I've remained curious about the upshot of Peter's research - and of course more so about the upshot of Francis Ward Monck!

So today I PMed Peter wondering, since we hadn't heard. Peter replied tout de suite, and I reproduce some of his PM below, as it is directed to all of us:



Dear Janey,

... your help and that of the other researchers on my board, held me in great stead for the particular module I was writting about Francis Ward Monck. Sadly due to time I have to give up the research as they impetus of my module changed, but none the less, I did make several referecnes to Monck in my essay ...

So, although this is late, and big thank you to you for your help, in helping me gain my degree.

Best wishes,

Peter




So the field of the definitive Francis Ward Monck research remains unoccupied as of now, if anybody wants to take a kick at it for future theses. ;)

Hi please excuse my late reply, but I will get around to looking properly this in the next few days! Brilliant, and thank you all so much for your help!

He was sent to prison in 1877.

This is fascinating to find out about!

what year did he go to prison it could have been he went to america after his release

i have searched passenger lists for monck/ monk but nothing coming up but after looking at the 1881 census he could of gone as ward.

will take another look

Ta, folks! Whaddaya think of Francis and Clarissa Ward in 1881, hm? Can't believe I didn't find them the other times I've idly (but doggedly) gone looking.

Was "confectioner" a front for the back room where he gave performances? ;)

The marriage for Rose Monck 1907 Guisbrough. Kathryn found.

According to Teesvalleyindexes Rose married William H Pickard. Teesvalley gives actual spouse not possible spouse

As far as the correction to Mary Dodwell in 1861 it was by an I Wuth.

Ozi.

Checking the above: doesn't look anything like Monck. Doesn't even look like Portaro but such a scrawl it's difficult to read. However he's a general labourer so I'd rule him out.

Also recorded as being deaf.

Ozi.

Who will look up the details for this entry in 1891??


Name: Francis W Portaro
Birth: abt 1838 - Landport , Hampshire, England
Residence: 1891 - city, Hampshire, England


I don't see anyone to match in earlier censuses, and of course I suspect that "Portaro" is a mistranscription, although not likely for Monck.

Look what I found in the 1881 census (searching for Franc*, in case of mistranscriptions, born 1837-1841, wife Clar*):


Name: Francis Ward
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Clarissa
Gender: Male
Where born: Landport, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Kensington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 1a St Ervans Road
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Confectioner

Name: Clarissa Ward
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Francis
Gender: Female
Where born: Denbighshire, Wales

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 43a

Clarissa Ward 29
Francis Ward 38


Births Sep 1853
SAGE Clarissa Pontypool 11a 11_


How the mighty seems to have fallen ...

I suspect this is first wife Mary Spencer Dodwell in the 1861 census:

Name: Mary S Doddwell
Birth: abt 1833 - city, Buckinghamshire, England
Residence: 1861 - city, Buckinghamshire, England

-- name corrected to Dodwell by an Ancestry user ... since I still haven't sorted out my subscription, I can't tell whether it was me ;)

If not, it could be worthwhile to contact the person who made the correction. The DOB matches Mary Spencer Monck's age, 34 at death in 1867. So I suspect it was me who made the correction, although I would likely have added Monck as an alternate name.

What I'm wondering is whether she is connected with the Irish Dodwells who were theological scholars, and in particular William Dodwell, author of "Free Answer" to "Free Enquiry", apparently about miracles, sometime in the late 1700s I think.

http://www.amazon.com/Answer-Middletons-Inquiry-
Miraculous-Primitive/dp/0766169162

And I wonder whether that could have been an influence on FWM. He married Dodwell not long after the 1861 census when he was a Baptist divinity student, and we know that he did practise as a Baptist clergyman for at least some time.

I had some notion that Dodwell in connection with theology came into the FMW saga ... can't figure out why, but it turns out I was right about the Dodwell-theology bit ...

Peter -- if you search trees here at GR (button on the upper left) for Monck born in Hampshire 1800 +/- 20 years, you'll find Lloyd with Thomas in his tree. Lloyd is very familiar with some branches of the Portsea Moncks, but as far as I know, not with FWM's branch.

If you don't get a reply to a contact via PM here at GR, I have an email address for Lloyd around somewhere and I could pass yours on to him (if you send it to be via PM).

I can't find any record of FWM or wife Clarissa in the US censuses from 1880 onward.

Here's an interesting thing -- a submitted record in the IGI:

HENRY MONK
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY ANN WARD
Marriage: 17 FEB 1856 St Mary, Battersea, London, England

and here's what seems to be the corresponding record in the GRO:

Marriages Mar 1856
FLETCHER Jasper Wandsworth 1d 503
Monk Henry Wandsworth 1d 503
Standen Sarah Wandsworth 1d 503
WARD Mary Ann Wandsworth 1d 503

Fortunately the other couple is easy to track down:

Name: Jasper Fletcher
Spouse: Sarah
Birth: abt 1835 - city, Middlesex, England
Residence: 1861 - city, Surrey, England

so Henry Monk and Mary Ann Ward are the other couple. I wonder whether that would explain the change of middle name for FWM.

In 1861, Henry and Mary A Monck, FWM's parents per the 1851, are mistranscribed at Ancestry as Morick -- I found them, I believe, after discovering my own gr-grparents mistranscribed as Morick in 1901 ... the only one of a dozen mistranscriptions of Monck I had never thought of. (Morek, Monak, Morck, Morch, Mouch, Mouck ... these have to be watched for at FreeBMD as well, and the same thing happens to Monk: Mork, Mouk, etc.)

In 1851, Mary Monck, wife of Henry in Hampshire, is shown as born in 1795. In 1861, Mary A Monck, wife of Henry in Hampshire, is shown as born in 1798. If I'd just sort my Ancestry subscription out ... can anybody tell whether the birth places match?

The 1856 marriage is more likely coincidence. Monk is a very common name (Monck much less so).

Thanks so much to Lindsey and Sylvia for pointing me here!

At one time, I had entertained the motion that Francis Ward Monck was my grx2 grandfather, based on the family info that the father of my gr-grfather Ernest Augustus Monck was Francis Monck. The only record of my Francis Monck is on Ernest's 1883 marriage certificate -- and, I found when I determined that Ernest had had a sister, on her 1875 marriage certificate.

I tracked FWM quite extensively, and finally figured out (problem being mistranscribed age on early census, etc.) that he was just a tad too young to be the father of someone born 1851. Also, as we all know, I determined that my gr-grfather and his sister were actually born Hill, not Monck, and their father (at least officially) was Francis Hoare Hill.

FWM is one of the Portsmouth/Portsea Moncks. I have been in touch with a couple of descendants of that clan in the past, but neither were directly related to FWM, as I recall. One, I believe, is a member of GR, and I'll look him up and PM info to Peter.

Quite a bit of info is available on the net about FMW, as there seems to have been a bit of renewed interest in him among the spiritualist community. His fans included Arthur Conan Doyle.

Oh that's right, duh, I did a little thread about him right here at GR recently.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1080078

There appears to be no record of his birth in the GRO (at FreeBMD). He first appears in the 1851 census with parents Henry and Mary.

Someone else named FW -- Francis Ward Mills -- was registered in Portsea in 1838. But I tracked him through the census, so that isn't our FWM.

This appears to be FWM in the IGI:

FRANCIS HURST MONCK
Christening: 24 NOV 1841 Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire, England
Father: HENRY MONCK
Mother: MARY ANN
Batch No.: C062615

There's no matching entry in the GRO.

In 1861, FWM was in Northamptonshire living with a Baptist clergyman and studying for the clergy. He was in fact ordained as a Baptist clergyman.

I believe I've been unable to find him in a census with Clarissa Sage, his second wife, or to find her anywhere.

His first marriage was in 1861:

Marriages Dec 1861
Dodwell Mary Spencer Driffield 9d 549
Monck Francis Ward Driffield 9d 549
Newlove Charlotta Driffield 9d 549
WHARRAM William Driffield 9d 549

That wife died in 1867, so they never appeared in a census together:

Deaths Sep 1867
Monck Mary Spencer 34 Oxford 3a 363

As far as I can tell, FMW did not have children with either wife. Although hmm, this sequence is a little interesting:

Births Sep 1866
Monck Rose Guisbro' 9d 425
Deaths Mar 1867
Monck Rose age 0 Guisbro' 9d 308
Births Sep 1872
Monck Rose Guisbro' 9d 466
Deaths Dec 1903
Monck Rose age 34 Sheffield 9c 420
Marriages Jun 1907
MONCK Rose Guisbro' 9d 943

However, this would be the second one in 1881, and with the parents in their 40s, one would guess that the first one was also a child of theirs:

Name: Rose Monk
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Marske, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Marske in Guisbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

That still leaves a spare Rose in that list, but she isn't likely connected with FWM.


Anyhow. The info on the net is that FWM relocated to the US some time after his release from prison. I see no record of Clarissa Monck's death in the GRO, so presumably she went with him.

(The Clarissa Monck born 1855 and married 1877 is a member of the Essex Monck clan, there being no established relationship between the Portsmouth/Portsea and Essex clans other than their presumed common descent from William Le Moyne who accompanied the Conqueror.)

I haven't made any serious attempt to find FWM in US records, and none of the info on line seems to refer to any claim to fame he might have had there. But it seems that that's where to look for him!

Such fun to meet you, Peter -- do look at that other thread, and let me know whether I might have anything else that could help!


edit to add -- oops! Kathryn B as was. ;)

He probably disappeared into the ether !LOL

An extract from Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology Part 2 Francis Ward Monck spent the closing period of his life in New York.

Wonder if he died there?

Thanks Lindsey.

Peter, she is the lady who made the reference to Francis Ward Monck on the 1851 census.

Ozi.

I THOUGHT the name Monck struck a bell!!!

KathrynB aka JaneyCanuck posted on Chat late last week.

I'll also send her a pm


sylvia

Dont think Kathryn is around at present. I know a family member was ill.
She was also negotiating with Ancestry about her subscription.
Shes going by the name Janey Canuck at present

I.ve sent her a message{ KB that is}

Yes Ozi,

Thank you I didn't find his first wifes death, and Lorraine thank you also.

I will continue looking but I must go to bed as I am up first thing. Sorry Ozi, excuse me if I am being simple, but who is Kathryn B?

Thanks again,

Peter