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After a hard day at work you certainly know how to confuse my old brain!!!!!! I have been in brief contact with my cousin, I told him about William and Caroline but he says he didn't think Wm and kate divorced, and that when Kate moved to Leigh, Lancs and lived with David Jenkins, he was ref'd to as common law husband. Also, somewhere in cousin Derek's memory he now confirms he thought Wm might have been Irish, in which case this particular wm isn't the right one. Sigh. Maybe he just doesn't want me to find him, huh?

That's what I've been doing, for sure! Selina was Purcil in 1901, I think it was.

Pur*l, Par*l, to try to narrow it a bit anyhow.

Also, Ancestry doesn't recognize Wm as William, for example, so I often search for William Wm.

Just to add to the confusion

Purcell is also written as Parcell/Parcel over the years.

This name can be found in all forms in Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Hull, Wales and Australia....sometimes also mistranscribed as Purshell

a tip for searching....... enter surname only of either Par* Parc* Pur* Parc* or Purs* with date and maybe area

I think I will send for the cert anyway, if it isn't the same one I can always offer it up.
Cheers!
E xx

I remember looking at him before -- father's name matches? But father is Ag Labourer.


Name: William Purcell
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
* Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Martha
Where born: Audlem, Cheshire, England

* Civil Parish: Buerton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street address: Pindars End
Occupation: Domestic Servant

Registration district: Nantwich
Sub registration district: Wrenbury

Annie M. Bate
Eliza Purcell 3
John Purcell 37
John Purcell 9
Joseph Purcell 1
Martha Purcell 36
Mary Purcell 7
Thomas Purcell 5
William Purcell 16

Aargh. If this is them:

Name: William Purcell
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline
Where born: Burton, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Wem
Ecclesiastical parish: Edstaston St Mary
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration district: Wem
Sub registration district: Wem
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Caroline Purcell 42
William Purcell 36


then you have (had?) a birthplace for him!

Ah, I see -- that is the William I had in 1891, the platelayer. Query is it your William; right.


This marriage, I think:

Marriages Jun 1894
Butler Agnes Wem 6a 1361
Lawton John Wem 6a 1361
* Morris Caroline Wem 6a 1361
* Purcell William Wem 6a 1361


Different spelling -- but the Cheshire connection is there ...

ooh I see what you mean about Tecton and Selina okay maybe the writing isn't that fantastic but how on earth they arrived at that as a name beats me!!!
I followed Wm to the 1901 census and he is still working on the railways and was married by then to Caroline, who is 6 years older. I suppose the next step would be to search for their marriage cert wouldn't it to see if it is the same wm? Maybe I will dig around a bit more, it is not an uncommon name sadly. Thanks for all your help, as ever. E xxx

I should have been clearer -- "Tecton" is Ancestry's weird and wonderful MIStranscription of "Selina". It's quite plain on the image!



Just sticking the other thread URL here for ref:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1105736

Well you have stunned me there girl! Wm - yes I guess that could be him, I will ook tonight. Yes she did have a brother John plus several other siblings but they were mainly born in Mold. But Tecton???? How strange a name is that? But the other names fit don't they??? Will look when I get home from work tonight! Well done - I just don't know how you do it!!!

E xx

1891


Name: Tecton Powell
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Mold
Town: Pentrehobyn
County/Island: Flintshire
Registration district: Holywell

Ann Jones 50
John R Jones 9 - it says Collins
Margaret Jones 11 - it says Collins
Michael Jones 17 - it says Collins
Peter Jones 15 - it says Collins
Richard Jones 39
Tecton Powell 4


TECTON POWELL is SELINA and some variation on PURSELL - could be Porcell, or could be Powell transcribed by somebody who didn't read Pursell or Purcell correctly.


The other children's surnames are written out clearly and individually. Ancestry just decided to ignore them.

Have you considered this William in 1891?

Name: William Purcell
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Buerton, Cheshire, England
Occupation: Railway Platelayer
Condition as to marriage: Single

Civil Parish: Coppenhall
Ecclesiastical parish: Coppenhall
County/Island: Cheshire

I was looking at him yesterday. Did Kate Collins happen to have a brother John? Coincidence I'm sure, but the second-next household to William is a John Collins, born abt 1861 in Crewe, General Labourer. (No, duh, I already put the 1871 household here, didn't I?)

There are other railway platelayer lodgers in the household, and the ones after him are identified as married. If there had been an estrangement (as it seems, with Kate working and daughter Selina absent), William might have called himself / been thought to be single.

I just had my memory jogged. Peter Collins is the son of the elusive Michael and Bridget from Ireland, and was living with the Foulkes couple after his parents disappeared from the censuses. A recurring problem you have there!

Not really - I didn't have it I mean, but my cousin did some scribblings but never totally explained them.
Thanks as ever for your help and interest
Exx

Ah, so you did have that 1901 already. Well, then, I was right, lol!

Yep, Peter Collins died 7/6/1875 of 'Fever and Congestion of the Brain' His widow Ann married Richard Jones, she died 14/1/1903 of Gastritis. Ann's maiden name was Griffiths - she married Peter 13/7/1863, her father was David Griffith, Blacksmith, hence the Griffiths on that 1901 census you found, Evie.

E xx

Evie - hello again! - I have just dropped home for a bite to eat then back to work; I will fill you in with more later. The Griffiths connection - yes, also possibly Richard. I have some bits of reminicences on paper but I will put them on here tonight at some point. I knew Kate was at the addresses you gave and I have followed her to Leigh, Lancs when she ended up with one David Jenkins who was a bit of a violent B*stard - rumour has it he impregnated Selina after her mother's early death and that she was petrified of him. I am just curious about Wm. I wonder if railway records exist of employees??
Gotta dash now
Thaks as ever
E xx

1871 census for Kate's mother:

Name: Ann Collins
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Peter
Where born: Pentre, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Argoed
Ecclesiastical parish: Mold
County/Island: Flintshire

Peter Collins 28
Ann Collins 31
Thomas Collins 6
Catherine Collins 5
Elizabeth Ann Collins 3


Her personal details match those of grandmother Ann Jones in 1901.

We know Peter Collins was deceased in 1886; did Ann Collins remarry?

This doesn't make a lot of sense, but in 1901, I read this surname as PURCIL (see the "P" in "Priscilla" higher up the page):

Name: Selina Daseil
Age in 1901: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Mold
Town: Mold
County/Island: Flintshire

Selina Daseil 14 - granddaughter
Elizabeth Griffith 13 - niece
John Griffiths 22 - boarder
Ann Jones 61 - wife
Richard Jones 49 - head, Labourer at Brickworks

1881 for info:

Name: Catherine Collins
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Servant
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Mold

Selina was born in Chester in 1887. It would seem highly likely that the Catherine Pursell there in 1891 is your Kate.

Name: Catherine Pursell
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Servant
Where born: Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Chester


Employers would not likely know nor care what their domestic servants' marital status was.

That Catherine Pursell in 1891 doesn't match with anyone in the earlier censuses.


You say: "I know what happened with Kate and Selina" -- but we don't!

Do you have them in the 1901 census, or Selina's marriage or Kate's death, or emigrating ...?