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Thats great news Ann and what a name!!!I expect the Fiddler -Fidlar is a surname gathered through his family...maybe from his mother's side?

Good luck Ann!

Michelle

Hi Michelle,

Della on site has replied to my Colchester parish records thread, she has a few records for there, we may get lucky and find Francis Fidlar/Fiddler Hand Green.

Do you think his parents were a bit tipsy when they decided on a name!

Ann

Ann

I enjoyed helping on yours and the marriage was a really lucky find!I did a google search of their names and found the site that had Suffolk Strays BMD records.Amazing you would never have thought they were married,just goes to show doesn't it!The area the marriage was in was where the sister Eliza was born.What an amazing name Francis had!!lol!!

P'm me when you get any info would love to hear about this 1.Or go to my lookup thread-its on the Records Offfice Board,called Census lookups Offered-***Michelle***-New thread.

Michelle

Hello michelle,

What a find the marriage of Caroline & Francis, I will find out where I send for the parish record, What an unusual name for Francis, cant wait to see what his father was called!, it will probably be something dull!

Ozi, have sent you a pm, Not sure why you think the school Henry is not my Green, he is not with the family in 1851?

Many thanks both
Ann h

Hello, Ann.

I'm the person who sent you the message about finding a Henry Green at school.

4 points to consider:
1. I think Henry & Harry are the same person.
2. I don't think the Henry I found is your boy, especially as Harry has been found in 1851.
2. My name is Ozibird as in bird, chick, sheila, doll. In other words, I'm female but no offence has been taken.
4. Ozi refers to being a citizen of Australia so my timing is a little bit different to yours & I can't reply in my sleep yet, but wish I could!

Ozi.

Eliza married in 1857

James Botwright 1857 Thingoe Suffolk
View Record

Eliza Stedman 1857 Thingoe Suffolk

Louisa was with the couple on the 1871 a;so

1871 England Census
about Eliza Botwright
Name: Eliza Botwright
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James
Gender: Female
Where born: Ixworth, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: St James
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Bury St Edmunds
Sub registration district: Bury St Edmunds
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 97
Household Members: Name Age
James Botwright 65
Eliza Botwright 50
Louisa Stedman 55
Harriet Fakes 70

and married again in 1874

Eliza Botwright 1874 Bury St Edmunds Suffolk
View Record
John Staff Bowen 1874 Bury St Edmunds Suffolk

To become Bowen as seen on the 1881 with her sister Louisa

James Botwright died in 1871

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983
about James Botwright
Name: James Botwright
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 65
District: Bury St Edmunds
County: Suffolk
Volume: 4a
Page: 333 (click to see others on page)

2nd husband died in 1875 so not long after marriage....how sad!

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983
about John Staff Bowen
Name: John Staff Bowen
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 58
District: Stow
County: Suffolk
Volume: 4a
Page: 360 (click to see others on page)

Found this.....on Suffolk Strays for marriages!!

Francis Fidlar Hand GREEN of St. Pancras and Caroline STEDMAN - 9th May, 1837 - Ixworth

Found it on this site

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e12f5378e71569e5c8ef6ed76ab4fcda&topic=234365.0

Night i am off to zzzzzzz

Looks like Eliza married and here she is on the 1881 with her sister Louisa who was still unmarried

1881 England Census
about Eliza Bowen
Name: Eliza Bowen
Age: 61
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ixworth, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Bury St Edmunds St James
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address: 11 Albert Street
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Annuitant

Registration district: Bury St Edmunds
Sub registration district: Bury St Edmunds
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Bowen 61
Louias Stedman 66
Kate E. Sparling 16

1881 England Census
about Louias Stedman
Name: Louias Stedman
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Thurston, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Bury St Edmunds St James
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address: 11 Albert Street
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Annuitant

Registration district: Bury St Edmunds
Sub registration district: Bury St Edmunds
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Bowen 61
Louias Stedman 66
Kate E. Sparling 16

Kate was a Servant


I think i will dream of Green's tonight!!!lol!!

There is a Louisa Stedman in Caroline Greens house on the 1841 census Islington, her age is given as 20.

Just thinking it was a long way to pack your kids off to grandmas, just checked and from Islington it is 88 miles, no small trip in those days!!

Am off to bed now Michelle or my brain wont work tomorrow, goodnight and again many thanks for your help, if i dont here from you before the cert comes I will let you know the results.
Annx

Here is louisa from the 1851 in Suffolk where the Green boys were.This is an extraced record

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOUISA STEDMAN Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 07 NOV 1813 Thurston, Suffolk, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: CHARLES STEDMAN Family
Mother: MARY


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Hi Michelle,

You should take this up full time! Strange you should say re child connections next to Henry on the school list is a Alfred aged 11, exact match for his brother............is it possible to be on two census as "Alfred" is listed with the family in 1851!

Douglas might be a twin of Stedman lol

Ann

Can't see the marriage at the moment and i have looked.The Caroline on the family search site looks good but like i said always be cautious with submitted records.

Birth cert of 1 of the children would be a great idea and will sort the whole thing out.

There has been too many connections with Stedman's to not be a match!

Michelle

Ann

It may have been this 1 for Henry that the member mentioned to you

1851 England Census
about Henry Green
Name: Henry Green
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Scholar
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Edmonton
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub registration district: Edmonton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 77
Household Members: Name Age
John W Ireland 37
J Catherine E Ireland 32
John E H Ireland 5
William P Ireland 3
Ann Alger 47
John Button 38
Ann E Ellis 21
Mary Davis 36
William Tayon 20
John Barker 15
Robert Tabrum 14
James Robertson 8
Ernest Watson 11
George Scuorn 14
Henry Watson 9
Matthew Mc Nolte 13
Thomas Wright 13
George Stuart 11
James Stoneham 11
Edward Tabrum 13
Frederick Tabrum 10
James Allen 15
Barnett Stoneham 10
Oliver Wild 11
Arthur Bullock 13
Henry Griffiths 11
Henry Walter 14
Edward Davey 16
William Davey 15
George Robertson 12
John Adnitt 12
Herbert King 13
Andrew Northcraft 11
Edwin Etherington 12
John Pearson 11
Alfred Green 11
Henry Green 9
Robert Herixman 4
Henry Herixman 8
George Horsey 7
William Horsey 9
Richard Buck 14
Benjamin Cuthbert 7
Henry Garton 13
Henry Palmer 11
William Linow 11
William Price 16
Edward Dowling 9
Douglass Green 4

I had also seen this.Other Greens in this list.....lets pray no connection!!!!

The census image of the 1851 in Suffolk i studied closely and like i say there is no mention of mother to the children.Eliza is unmarried and all children on image listed as Grandchildren to the Head of house.

Thats a good match for Caroline Stedman Michelle, I think she must have married pre 1837 but where!

Ann

Hi Michelle,

I was lost for a bit re the Eliza? but i see what you mean so far then:

Ada 1838
Alfred 1840
Percy 1841 (poss)
Henry F 1843
Harry FCJ 1844
Walter 1845
Stedman 1847
Emily 1850

so all possible date wise, i will get my aunt to send for henry F birth to find out Carolines maiden name............what a strange set up this is. I had a message re Henry Frank Green 1843 earlier from a member saying he thought he had found him in a school in 1851 as he also is missing from the family home..........but he never gave any details, and as yet has not mailed me back.

Many thanks again for your research much appreciated.

Ann

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Stedman Green
Name: Stedman Green
Year of Registration: 1847
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Islington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 3
Page: 284 (click to see others on page)

I found a birth for 1841 of a Percy Green its not reg until Q3 though but still a poss and found a poss for him in 1851 with a Stedman again!!Grandmother listed as Mary Stedman??Looks poss same family as the 1841.Eliza is listed as mother but she is unmarried so i think these could be more children of Caroline.All of these Green children listed as born in Middlesex

1851 England Census
about Percy Green
Name: Percy Green
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Grandson
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Ampton
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Thingoe
Sub registration district: Rougham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Stedman 75
Louisa Stedman 35
Eliza Stedman 29
Percy Green 9
Harry F C J Green 7
Stedman Green 4
Hannah Garwood 21
Maria Mothersale 17

1851 England Census
about Harry F C J Green
Name: Harry F C J Green
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Grandson
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Ampton
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Thingoe
Sub registration district: Rougham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Stedman 75
Louisa Stedman 35
Eliza Stedman 29
Percy Green 9
Harry F C J Green 7
Stedman Green 4
Hannah Garwood 21
Maria Mothersale 17

1851 England Census
about Stedman Green
Name: Stedman Green
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Grandson
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Ampton
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Thingoe
Sub registration district: Rougham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Stedman 75
Louisa Stedman 35
Eliza Stedman 29
Percy Green 9
Harry F C J Green 7
Stedman Green 4
Hannah Garwood 21
Maria Mothersale 17

Also on the IGI i found a poss Christening for a Caroline Stedman born 1812 Thurston Suffolk to Charles and Mary....trouble is it is submitted and not an extracted record.

There is no mention that any of the children are Eliza's i think this has been presumed by the transcriber..

Oh Michelle, you clever person............there are three GREEN children there, and one with four names like the father Francis. I will check the ages and see if they slot in...

Oh gosh i was going to bed but i cant now too intrigued! If you saw this in present day you would think thy were giving their kids away!

Thank you so much Michelle

Annx

Hi All,

I have just posted on here and it has not appeared! Do you think there is a possibility that Caroline could be a Stedman, seems strange that at the same time 1841 there is a Stedman with the Greens in Islington.

other Sibling Henry green 1843 is also missing from the 1851 family, as is Infant Green.

Ann

For Reference this is the 1851 for the parents

1851 England Census
about Caroline Green
Name: Caroline Green
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Francis
Gender: Female
Where born: Thurston, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 112
Household Members: Name Age
Francis Green 39
Caroline Green 38
Alfred Green 11
Walter Green 6
Emily Green 1

1851 England Census
about Francis Green
Name: Francis Green
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline
Gender: Male
Where born: Colchester, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 112
Household Members: Name Age
Francis Green 39
Caroline Green 38
Alfred Green 11
Walter Green 6
Emily Green 1


1861

1861 England Census
about Caroline Green
Name: Caroline Green
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Thurston, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 35
Household Members: Name Age
Caroline Green 48
Ellen Stedman 22
Geo Bridgeman 20


Ellen listed as housekeeper

I cant e-mail on this stupid laptop, i posted yesterday on records under 1841 census lookup 13 replies............if you find it the family is listed on there 1841 1851 and 1861 so you have a clearer view.

On the 1841 there is a Louisa STEDMAN aged 20 with the family
On the 1861 there is an Ellen STEDMAN with the family.

No I dont have Carolines maiden name as yet. Will have a look at what you sent proper now..........ta so much!

Annx