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why cannot I find William John on the 1891 Census????




sylvia

It is Yeates by the time William John married

Marriages Jun 1915 (>99%)

Collins Minnie Yeates Swansea 11a 2100
Yeates William J Collins Swansea 11a 2100




wonder what the 1911 says?????? ....... that is, when the Welsh counties are transcribed



sylvia

????? William Charles death registration


Deaths Sep 1900 (>99%)

Yates William 41 Swansea 11a 505





sylvia

looks like the name change came between 1901 and 1915 when William John got married.





sylvia

Now all we need is Graham to return to the thread!



sylvia

Yes, be interesting to see how what we found compares to his info!

I have sent him a pm

Hello all, apologies for the delay in getting back, I did not know how to get at my threads untill now. Thanks to you all for your amazing help.You all seem to have confirmed my findings which I am delighted with. These findings are;

William Charles Yates was born c 1857 in Bermondsey to parents Joseph Yates and Francis (Carpenter) who were married on 23rd August 1848 in Bermondsey. William Charles can be found on the Bermondsey census (aged 3) for 1861 with his parents Joseph Anthony and Francis and siblings. William then moved to Swansea around 1881 probably to work on the newly opened docks at that time. The purpose of my original posting was to establish the accuracy and objectivity of these findings. It appears that my findings this far are correct. As one of you have commented the family name appears to change between 1901 and 1915 when my grandfather William John was married to Minnie Collins. My next query deals with Joseph Yates who appears on the 1841 Bermondsey census aged 13 with his father Anthony (originating in Cornwall) and mother Francis. I have recently found a BMD entry for Joseph Yates around Mar 1903

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page
Yates Joseph 74 Camberwell 1d 537
and am now in the process of tracing his grave (probably in Camberwell Old Cemetery) Has anyone any tips for finding a grave for Joseph Yates ?

I have also traced Joseph's father Anthony back, and I am now really looking to confirm my findings regarding Anthony Yates (c1801 Cornwall) origins. Can anyone offer me some help in this area too ? Is there any way that I can get some record of this Anthony's birth in order to confirm his parents names ?

Many thanks again...you are all wonderful people !

Graham Yeates

For reference


1841 Census

Name: Anthony Yates
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth

Anthony Yates 40 not born in county, Cabinet Maker
Francis Yates 40 b.va 1801, not born in county
Charles Yates 16 b.ca 1825, not born in county
James Yates 15 b.ca 1826, Surrey, French Polisher
Joseph Yates 13 b.ca 1828, not born in county
Edward Yates 11 b.ca 1830, Surrey

Address:- Church St, Lambeth



sylvia

1851 Census ........... Anthony says born Cornwall, Edward becomes Edwin (French Polisher)


1871 Census

Name: A Yates
Age: 77
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1794
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: T <<<<<<<<<<<<< F on image
Gender: Male
Where born: Cornwall, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Emmanuel
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second

A Yates 77 Cabinet Maker
T Yates 75 b.ca 1796, Southwark, Surrey

Address: 1 John Street


Living in same house, but separately from, as Edward and his family



sylvia


I'm trying to see if he actually says anything other than Cornwall as his birth place!!

Got him in 1861!!!

1861 Census

Name: Frances Yates <<<<<< this is what it does say on the image
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Francis
Gender: Male
Where born: Penzance <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second

Frances Yates 60 Cabinet Maker
Francis Yates 58 b.ca 1803, Lambeth, Surrey




sylvia

?????????


Anthony's marriage to Francis, from the IGI

ANTHONY YEATS Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: FRANCES PORTER Family
Marriage: 17 APR 1820 Saint Clement Danes, Westminster, London, England

-------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

--------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M041601 1754 - 1777 0574460 Film 6903795 Film
M041601 1777 - 1802 0574461 Film NONE
M041601 1802 - 1837 0574462 Film NONE




sylvia

from IGI


Number one possibility

ANTHONY YEATS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 JAN 1797 Crowan, Cornwall, England

Parents:
Father: JOHN YEATS Family
Mother: MARGT.

--------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

--------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C022261 1795 - 1812 0246797 Film 6904600 Film
C022261 1813 - 1869 0246798 Film 6904600 Film



- - - - - - -

Number two possibility

ANTHONY YATES Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 05 SEP 1802 Phillack, Cornwall, England

Parents:
Father: JOHN YATES Family
Mother: ELIZABETH

--------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

-------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C023191 1775 - 1852 0254199 Film 6901791 Film
C023191 1852 - 1875 0254200




sylvia

Is either Crowan or Phillack reasonably close to Penzance?????????

Sylvia, I think I love you !
I have found William C Yates and Mary A Yates living in Cheshire on the 1891 Netherpool Chesire census with Luther J Yates,, b ca 1883 Swansea. It must be the right couple as no same names come up on the Swansea census for 1891 and the name Luther is passed on in the family. I have researched this possible move from Wales to Cheshire and the date coincides with the building of Ellesmere Port, a major Docks project, so I assume he finished working on the Swansea dock then moved to Cheshire for work and then back to Swansea by 1901 when he died.

Seriously though you have helped so much with this. You have so far gone down the same route as myself. I have found William John on the 1901 Swansea census living in Mermaid Row..he is living with his mother Mary and siblings. I am really looking forward to the 1911 census becoming available so I can see who Mary remarried after William's death in 1901.

I have found a family grave in Swansea after years of searching and in it are;
William C Yates and Mary A Master (Mary Anne Yates remarried) and their eldest child Luther J Yates b ca 1883 with 7 other people in the grave, mainly young children.
Where I am now stuck is working out which Anthony born in Cornwall is mine.

Christening: 29 JAN 1797 Crowan, Cornwall, England

OR

Christening: 05 SEP 1802 Phillack, Cornwall, England

Can you or anyone else suggest any way of confirming which of the above it might be. I would be fascinated to try and find Anthony's grave in London and his parents grave in Cornwall but not sure how I go about that. Any ideas please ?

Thanks again

Graham

well, I'm glad that I'm confirming what you had found!!


As far as the graves ........ not sure.


If you can find where they died, then look for a church or cemetery in that area.

That could be easier for his parents, assuming they stayed in Cornwall ......... but I doubt that gravestone would solve your problem, unless someone happens to have carved on it that son Anthony is buried elsewhere. I have seen that on one of OH's gravestone from the late 1800s up near Kendal.


You could look for children of the putative parents (the IGI on www.familysearch.org would be a good place to start), and see if there is any repetition of names by Anthony ........... names do tend to run in a family.




sylvia

some quick calculations of Cornwall and the places are really not that far apart.
Getting more and more obsessed with this here !

Crowan to phillack 8 miles

Crowan to Penzance 13 miles

Phillack to penzance 9 miles


Graham