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Hasilngden seems to be Newchurch seem to be Rosendale and then seems to be Rochdale ???>>

I too am confused now - However, I think you are again correct Evie - wrong father anyway !!

Dea x

Is this the marriage? On BVRI:

BUTTERWORTH, Thomas Spencer Age: 25 Marriage
Wife: Mary BAILEY Age: 19
Marriage Date: 2 Feb 1888 Recorded in: Marsden, Lancashire, England
Husband's Father: William BUTTERWORTH
Wife's Father: Robert BAILEY
Source: FHL Film 1471098 Dates: 1849 - 1898

Margaret -- going by the ages in the censuses, that seems to be the right Thomas marrying his first wife -- who, if my theory is correct, was not Arnold's mother.

Thomas seems to have begun a relationship with Arnold's mother shortly after the 1901 census, in time for Arnold to be born in 1902.

In the 1911 census, Thomas and his wife Mary (with their children) are living separately; Thomas is living with Ms. Ashworth and her children, one of whom appears to be Arnold Butterworth Ashworth, who then married (and no doubt was reared) as Arnold Butterworth.

In the 1911:


ASHWORTH ALICE MARY 1901 10 Rochdale Lancashire
ASHWORTH MARION B 1908 3 Rochdale Lancashire
ASHWORTH REBE B 1906 5 Rochdale Lancashire


Births Sep 1903
Ashworth Mary Butterworth Rochdale 8e 71

Births Sep 1905
Ashworth Rebe Butterworth Rochdale 8e 41

Births Mar 1908
Ashworth Marion Butterworth Rochdale 8e 56


I'm right I'm right we know I'm right. ;)

There are many Ashworth - mother Ashworth births in Rochdale after 1911, so there could be more siblings of Arnold -- although none has middle initial B (only middle initials were recorded in the index after 1911).

It doesn't appear that Mr Butterworth and Ms Ashworth ever married.



Mother:

ASHWORTH RACHEL 1878 33 Rochdale Lancashire

This could be her birth:

Births Jun 1876
Ashworth Rachel Alice Rochdale 8e 55


Since the couple didn't marry it could be difficult to verify her details. I would suggest again that viewing all the details in the 1911 census (e.g. her place of birth) could help.

Aha. 1901:

Name: Rachel Ann Ashworth
[Rachel Ann Kay]
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Elza
Where born: Rochdale, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Rochdale
County/Island: Lancashire

Richard Kay 52 - public house keeper
Elza Kay 50
> Rachel Ann Ashworth 23
> Beatrice Ashworth 2
> Alice Mary Ashworth 1 month
Margaret Ann Wilcock 20
Rachel Maud Gennette 20
Fred Kay 16

Behold Alice and Beatrice.

So Ashworth was Rachel's married surname. She is shown as married in 1901.

Arnold and his younger sisters were registered in their mother's husband's surname, although they are no relation to him.

Marriages Sep 1896
ASHWORTH James Rochdale 8e 162
Kay Rachel Ann Rochdale 8e 162

Births Sep 1878
Kay Rachel Ann Rochdale 8e 58

So Allen - this is very definitely the story of your Arnold Butterworth!

He was the son of Thomas Spencer Butterworth and Rachel Ann Kay. Alice and Beatrice, daughters of Rachel, were his half-sisters. Thomas's children with Mary were his half-siblings. And the three girls born to Thomas and Rachel were his sisters.

Probably more, er, interesting than you had expected. ;)

Allen has PMed that this all seems to make sense -- and we've swapped stories of cad grandfathers and mistreated grandmothers. Not the sorts of things one hopes to find when one goes looking for ancestors!

At least once we know where to look, we can look beyond them for better ones farther back the tree. ;)

I know most of us don't look at Success Stories regularly (and recently so many are just praise for GR when it hasn't done anything ...).

Alan has put a lovely thank you there (26 March) for all of us who helped him out in this thread.