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Thanks anyway Gillian - at least you have definitely ruled this one out for me - WIll keep looking

thanks
Lianne

I have looked at the 4 daughters of George and Ellen Edwards and Mary Jane married James O'Brien and had 5 children at 1901
Eleanor is unmarrried and teaching at a National Board School in Somerset in 1891
Amelia married Andrew Milroy Miller 1883 West Derby and is living Bootle 1891 and there are no children 1891 or 1901
Elizabeth Ann married Walter Philip Pickles 1883 West derby -he was a joiner and builder fom Halifax Yorkshire -but none of these searches throw up any sign or hint of an Arthur Edwards

I have loked at George Edwards wife's family (she was Ellen Daviies befor marriage in 1852 in Manchester and was born Mold Flintshire to see if Arthur was farmed out there but no joy
Sorry I couldnt solve it for you!

This is the full details of the marriage cert:

17th January 1927 at West Derby Register Office

Arthur Edwards (42 years) a Bachelor. Occupation is Dock Labourer. Address is 98 MIllers Bridge, Bootle. Father is George Edwards (deceased) a Brewers Maltster.

Rachel Dayer (41 years) a Widow. Address is 92a Millers Bridge, Bootle. Father is Ralph Plunkett, a Cotton Porter.

Witnesses to the wedding were WIllaim John McDonald and Naamah Bennett
(Naamah is Rachels (married) sister - no idea who WIlliam John Mcdonlad is)

Sadly I think we now have to rule out altogether the Arthur in Bootle as I have found him in 1891 wrongly transcribed as Arthur EDWARD and he was the son of William and Ellen and ha d siblings who include the Thomas shown with him in 1901 at his uncles house.
So back to the drawing board and what was your Arthurs occupation please?

This is beginning to bug me too!
Just a small point -the "one month" bit on the 1911 census is a reference to how long they have been marrried which was a new requirement in 1911.It doesnt mean they had a child of that age and there is no child listed
That Arthur and wife Celia Nora (Thorne ) married 1910 Dec Q West Derby
No one seems to have asked you what Arthur Seniors profession was on his marriage cert to compare with what we know about the Bootle street guy
I am still convinced that the George I found is the right one, given the name age place and occupation all match but why is Arthur not with them in 1891 or 1901. One possibility could be that he was not in fact the child of George and Ellen but the illegitimate child of one of their daughters but claimed as George and Ellens for respectability reasons (this often happened in those days) and was then farmed out to a relative
I will see if I can find the family link between the Arthur Edwards in Bootle street and William Wiliiams the uncle he lives with

Sorry Gillian, My wrong - getting confused
I have corrected the date

It could be the case but would be strange as this Arthur & Celia are living only a few streets away from where my Arthur and Rachel would have lived?! This is getting interesting!

thanks again
Lianne

I am confused now -you said it was Arthur (Senior ) who was BORN 1883 and his son Arthur Thomas was Born 1911 -now you say Racel and Arthur were together in 1883 and Arth ur Thomas was born 1883??
I was working on the hypthesis that Arthur Senior was born 1883 and married Celia,had a child with her then left her for Rachel,with whom he had a son and more children
Yes if he was honest the style bachelor would mean he had not been married before but he might not have been honest

I am not saying that this scenario is correct but just cautioning you not to discard it out of hand

On Arthut and Rachel's mariage certificate he is listed as a bachelor while she is a widow - does this mean that he was never married before?

Also I know that Rachel and Arthur were togther in 1911 as this is when their son - Arthur Thomas was born (I have his birth certificate) They had 7 children together by the time they got married in 1927

Why are you ruling him out, Lianne? This would be exactly what I would expect to find in a case where the marriage was so long delayed. The existence of a prior marriage in days when divorce was out of the question for any but the very rich often meant that the parties to the new relationship had to wait long years until the previous partner died,Have you looked for the death of the wife shown 1911 -if it was shortly before the marriage to Rachel that would clinch it

Bummer!

Just found the Arthur Edwards from Queens Road on the 1911 census and he married to a Celia Nora Edwards and they have a 1 month old son!

Looks like its not my Arthur afterall!

thanks anyway
Lianne

Thanks Gillian!

The Queen Street Bootle in 1901 is only a few streets away from where my grandad grew up - so a real posibility.

Regarding George - the occupation and move to liverpol fit in - but frustratingly there is no Arthur! I will try and look into it futher


I'm still looking on the 1911 census as I am determined to find them - just need to wait for waled to become availabel to be sure!

thanks again
lianne

In case this turns out to be the right George here he is in 2earlier cenusues
1871 Kirkdale
George Edwards 48 Brewer B Isacoed Denbighshire
Eleanor 36 wife b Mold Flintshire
Matthew H 18 Fireman b manchester
Elizabeth 13 b Manchester
Amelia 11 b Manchester
Eleanr 7 b Everton
Mary J 4 b Kirkdale

1861 Manchester
George Edwardes(sic) 39 Brewer b Denbighshire
Ellen 26 wife b Mold Flintshire
Matthew h 8 b Manchester
Elizabeth A 3 b Manchester
Amelia 1 b Manchester

And could this be a possible for George?
1881 Kirkdale , Liverpool
George Edwards 59 Brewers Assistant b Denbighshire Wales
Ellen 45 wife b St Asaph
Elizabeth A 23 Pupil Teacher b Manchester
Amelia 21 Dressmaker b Liverpool
Eleanor 17 Pupil teacher bLiverpool
Geoge H 7 grandson b Liverpool

BUT in 1891 George, Ellen and married daughter Mary J O'Brien are in Everton where he now says he is a brewer and ther is no Arthur present -was he with another uncle?

Could this be Arthur (Senior) in 1901?

1901 Bootle 65 Queen St
William Williams 42 Geneal Carter b L'pool
Emma 41 wife b L'pool
Elizabeth Rushton 22 niece Housemaid b L'pool
Thomas Edwards 22 nephew Dock Labourer b Bootle
ARTHUR Edwards nephew 18 App. Machinist b Bootle
plus 4 boarders

Hi All

Sorry to keep batting on about this one but I truly am stuck and it's the only lead I have to the Edwards side of my tree. It should be a big part of my tree and t's just so frustrating as I have done really really well with most of the other branches !

From my Great Great Grandfathers (Arthur Edwards) marriage certificate to Rachel Dayer in 1927, I have discovered that his father was George Edwards, a Brewers Assistant.

Arthur and Rachel were 42 and 41 years old when they were married and had been together for at least 16 years.
(Rachel was widow and was born Rachel Plunkett, (in Liverpool) her first huband, Edgar Dayer, Died in 1909 - Arthur was not married before)



Anyway - the person I am really looking for is George Edwards - he would have been born circa 1844 (give or take 10 years) - Arthur was born in 1883 but I dont' know if he was the youngest or oldest - (or even only) child!

As George Edwards is quite a common name and I am not sure which area the family are from, is there a way I can limit the search by using his occupation?

I have trawled through the Census' lookking for him but cant seem to put my finger on him - any ideas please?

Thanks again
Lianne

Thanks Sablon

I have the marriage cert for Arthur and Rachel and also the birth cert for Arthur Thomas.

It's more info George and Arthur senior I am looking to find so I can get a bit more info on the family. As it stands I dont know Georges wifes name or theor other children, if there was any.

thanks
Lianne

Births Dec 1883 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDWARDS Arthur W. Derby 8b 276

Births Sep 1911 (>99


Edwards Arthur T Plunkett W.Derby 8b 650

Marriages Mar 1927 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DAYER Rachel EDWARDS W. Derby 8b 624
EDWARDS Arthur DAYER W. Derby 8b 624


The district W.derby is an alternative name for West Derby and it is in the county of Lancashire

THE WIDOW


Marriages Sep 1905 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAYER Edgar Liverpool 8b 116
PLUNKETT Rachael Liverpool 8b 116


The district Liverpool is an alternative name for Liverpool and it is in the county of Lancashire

Sorry Potty - it is confusing

Arthur Thomas Edwards was born May 1911 in Liverpool (I have his birth cert)

Arthur Thomas' Father was Arthur Edwards born circa 1883/4 - from his age at the time of marriage but dont know where - (no middle name ever given)

Arthur's Father was George Edwards- unsure of his DOB or POB but his occupation on his sons marriage cert (in 1927) was given as a brewers assistant