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Does anyone have the 1861 census, would like to find out who was living with Joseph France born 1853 in Abram, Wigan, Lancs

Name: Joseph France
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Abram, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Abram
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Hindley
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
Henry France 41
Margaret France 38
Ellen France 19
James France 16
Sarah France 14
Henry France 12
Joseph France 8
Thomas France 8
John France 6
Richard France 3


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Is this his birth?

FRANCE, Joseph Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 24 Oct 1852 Recorded in: Abram, Lancashire, England
Father: Henry FRANCE
Mother: Margaret
Source: FHL Film 1469056 Dates: 1838 - 1872

And his siblings?

FRANCE, Henry Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 1 Jul 1849 Recorded in: Abram, Lancashire, England
Father: Henry FRANCE
Mother: Margaret
Source: FHL Film 1469056 Dates: 1838 - 1872

FRANCE, Thomas Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 24 Oct 1852 Recorded in: Abram, Lancashire, England
Father: Henry FRANCE
Mother: Margaret
Source: FHL Film 1469056 Dates: 1838 - 1872

FRANCE, John Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 1 Jul 1855 Recorded in: Abram, Lancashire, England
Father: Henry FRANCE
Mother: Margeret
Source: FHL Film 1469056 Dates: 1838 - 1872

FRANCE, Richard Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Nov 1857 Recorded in: Abram, Lancashire, England
Father: Henry FRANCE
Mother: Margeret
Source: FHL Film 1469056 Dates: 1838 - 1872

FRANCE, Elizebeth Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 24 Apr 1864 Recorded in: Abram, Lancashire, England
Father: Henry FRANCE
Mother: Margeret
Source: FHL Film 1469056 Dates: 1838 - 1872

(I see you have a set of twins there.)

Thankyou very much Barbara for that.
Kindest regards Janet

Thanks so much margaret, not sure that can be his birth, i thought he wasn't born till 1853 but will check further and try to find out. Same for his sibling's some of the names seem right but others dont match the census. again will see what else i can cross match.
Thanks again, Kindest regards Janet

Are you calculating his birthdate from age on census, Janet?
The 1861 census was done 7 April. Joseph was born Oct. 1852 so would have been 8 on the 61 census. (Hadn't had his birthday yet.)
The births I posted are definitely the same family that Barbara posted the census for. Twins Thomas and Joseph match.

Yes margaret my mistake im with you now.
Saving up to buy a subscrition so i can look at all census years, feel cheeky asking people really but once you get the bug.
Do you recommend any sites that are best to subscribe to?
Janet

I like Ancestry for census look-ups.
Forgot to mention that the births I posted were from BVRI (British Vital Records Index). They're on discs that I purchased many years ago. They're no longer for sale because the records are now on Worldwide Ancestry. I find the cost of Worldwide ancestry a little prohibitive, I just have Ancestry.UK.
p.s. Don't feel cheeky asking for look-ups. We're all willing & able to do them.

Thanks for that Margaret, will sign up with them i think.
Thanks again for all your help.
kindest regards janet

Hi Janet
Always remember that when you search to go at least 2 years either side of the date you have. It depends on when the census was taken like Margaret said but it is also because people could not remember or know the correct year they were born. I have had so many problems with this.
There are a few good site for researching but I personally use Ancestry.
Best of luck
Barbara

Thankyou very much Barbara, could i just ask to see if you have a census record from1861 for Charles Edward Wallbank, c1859 born in Woolwich and prob still in Kent. He seems to be a very elusive character.
If you dont have any spare time i quite understand, and thanks for your previous help its much appreciated!
Janet

Hi Janet
No luck on wallbank cannot even find a birth for him under Charles Edward. Have you any more info
Barbara

Hi Barbara, not much at all really a possible birth for june1860 in woolwich, and have his marriage in 1886 and census records for 1891 and 1901. but cause cant find a birth im sure of no idea who his parents are.
Janet

That's a curious one, isn't it?
Like Barbara, I can't find him on any census until after marriage.

Hi, yes he's a pain.
Think i have found him on 1871 census but i cant view in till i get a subsciption, its on find my past.com.
It matches the only possible birth record i have for him, which is 1860/1861 in Holborn, which is in middlesex/london, which is where the census is!

Hi Janet
I have tried everything I know but no Charles
Just wondering if his father was in the army has there were barracks in woolwich and I know they could take their families if they went abroad
Will keep trying
Regards
Barbara

There's on in St. George the Martyr, Finsbury, London. (I'll show my stupidity now and ask if that's anywhere near Holborn.) This one is age 10, born St. George the Martyr with parents James & Lucy.

1871

Name: Charles Wallbank
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Lucy
Gender: Male
Where born: St George The Martyr, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St George The Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St John The Evangelist
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: St George the Martyr
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 376
Household Members: Name Age
James Wallbank 46
Lucy Wallbank 47
Lucy Wallbank 23
Frances M Wallbank 22
James Wallbank 20
Mary Ann Wallbank 18
William Wallbank 13
Charles Wallbank 10
Hannah Whiting 56


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Can trace this one further back but not near Woolwich

Janet, I think your best bet is to buy the marriage certificate to get father's name.

Marriages Sep 1886 (97%)
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LIPPINGWELL Ann Maria Milton 2a 1282
RACE Elizabeth Milton 2a 1282
WALLBANK Charles Edward Milton 2a 1282