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I would like to say a big thankyou to everbody who helped me with this thread. I am pleased to say with all the information i was given regarding this family was correct I have recieved marriage and birth certificates today and it is deffently is the correct family. Richards marriage cert gave me Joseph mum's Maidan name whiich was Hollington, His birth certificate gave me his parents names which was Richard and Elizabeth Leaper and by re looking at Joseph d.o.b i managed to work out that he was not born in 1881 (as per census) it was in fact 1877 and again parents name's all match.

So once again thank you all so much for all your help

thanks again
debbie

Hi Debbie.
One possible marriage.
Richard James SARGUNT to Mary Ann Hollington. 1864 Oct/Dec Qtr. reg in Whitechapel. vol 1c page 879

Birth certificate for one of the children should give mothers maiden name, and if this marriage correct, then the certificate should give their Father's names and occupation. Ethel.

thank you v much maureen
deb

Looks good Maureen :)

I'm pretty sure this is Richard on FreeBMD:
Deaths Mar 1902
Sergeant Richard James 63 Bethnal G. 1c 137

Marriages Dec 1864
Hollington Mary Ann Whitechapel 1c 879
Sargunt Richard James Whitechapel 1c 879

Births Mar 1839
Sergeant Richard James Whitechapel 2 477

Good luck with your search!

Maureen

thanks heather posi i will try that

thanks maureen and blossom for all your help it makes sence with his mother being called elizabeth as names did seem to run in the family and it is looking like he was born in whitechapel so it is a possibility that joseph could have been born their as well but it is looking like he was defently born in east london.
sorry for delay in answers to you but my computer has been playing up all day
thanks again for all your work
debbie

Debbie, this is the man to contact about gun makers: He gave me a lot of info on mine in east london.

[email protected]

1861 Ancestry
Name: Rich Sargeant
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Elizh
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitechl, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Whitechapel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Goodmans Fields
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 3
Household Members: Name Age
Elizh Sargent 65
Geoe Sargeant 25 Occ:Gunsmith
Rich Sargeant 22 Occ: Gunsmith
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 273; Folio: 26; Page: 1; GSU roll: 542604.

Following on from Maureen, this could be Elizabeth in 1881:


1881 England Census
about Elizabeth Sargent
Name: Elizabeth Sargent
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Gn, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 41 Edward St
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Domestic Serv

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Biggs 23
Elizabeth Biggs 23
Elizabeth Biggs 1
Elizabeth Sargent 15

View
Original
Record

View original image
View bl

thanks maureen
thants great i could not find them on the 1871 census i also could not find them on the 1881 i never new they had a sister called elizabeth so that could be a good lead every year their dob seem to change ive just been trying to trace something on the web site for gun makers in london around that time but that is giving me a blank as well
thanks for all your help
debbie

Hi Deb,
I do wish I could find the family on the 1881!
However,I think this is probably one of their daughters:
FreeBMD
Births Jun 1867
SARGEANT Betsey Bethnal Green 1c 338

IGI
ELIZABETH BETSY SARGENT Pedigree
Birth: 01 MAY 1867

Christening: 22 MAY 1867 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London, England
Parents:
Father: RICHARD SARGENT
Mother: MARY ANN

1871 Ancestry
Name: Elizabeth Sargent
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green
Civil Parish: Stepney
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Mile End New Town
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Mile End New Town
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Sargent 29 Occ: Gun maker born Whitechapel
Mary Ann Sargent 28
Mary Sargent 8
Elizabeth Sargent 4
Sarah Sargent 5
Richard Sargent 1
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 515; Folio: 83; Page: 17


Maureen

thanks alot heather posi i will do that
deb

If the father is genuinely a gun maker - there are some very good records for people who have served that apprenticeship. Have a google search for them. One chap has kept records of families and baptisms of gunmakers back to about 18th century and may be able to help.

hi ricochet
ive tried the phonetic search no luck
thanks anyway for help

sorry ricohet
yes in 1891 their was no trace of joseph but i suppose he could of of been out
deb

i have joseph in 1901 they lived at 3 pitt street bethnal green
deb

thanks ricochet

?1891......some discrepancy with ages, but that's not unusual

Richard is a Gun maker......as he is in 1901

Name: Richard I Sargent
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Simons Zelotes
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England



Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green East
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard I Sargent 53
Mary A Sargent 42
George Sargent 18
Emma Sargent 16
Jane Sargent 11
Alice Sargent 9
Richard Sargent 21

BUT........no 'Joseph'?

Posting 1901............for info ONLY

Name: Richard Sargeant
Age: 68
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green South
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 305
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Sargeant 68
Mary A Sargeant 58
Rich Sargeant 28
Joseph Sargeant 20
Jane Sargeant 18
Alice Sargeant 16