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UPDATE

I have managed to find that there are two seperate entries under Marriage records
for Jan-Mar 1853 ie 1 for John Richmond and 1 for Emma Lester.

As they both cross match to the same volume, month, year and page number I have taken it that I have found John "Ralph".ie .
Marriage Register.
"Vol 8 C page 585 - 1853 Jan-Mar.".


Would this be a fair assumption??

morning jane
to be honest i do think that your ralph & john are the same person especially with the same occupation been given but if your still not 100% sure i would order the marriage cert for the john richmond & emma lester in the 1st qtr of 1853 & as you know both fathers names this will solve it for you plus it will give witnesses names who could be either one of there siblings or a memeber of there family it what i have done in the past even if i have been 99% sure i have right family it pays to make 100% sure before adding to your tree as i found out to my cost a few years ago when i first started doing mine i got one person wrong & had to delete over 40 people from my tree who were wrong (lol )
good luck & keep us posted
jacky

jane
just found this it looks like sarah hammersley & her husband had more than 2 children not sure if you knew that as you only mention 2 but here is the rest


The 1891 Census
is provided in
association with:
You have saved this record to My Ancestry (Shoebox).
You have saved this record to My Ancestry (People I'm Looking For).
This record has been added to your shoebox.
1891 England Census
about Sarah Downs
Name: Sarah Downs
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Tutbury, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Tower Hamlet
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Downs 36
Sarah Downs 35
Jolly Downs 10
John R Downs 8
Ernest L Downs 6
Mabel E Downs 3

Jane, Jacky found the John Richmond & Emma Lester connection earlier in this thread. That's why we've been following John in the census.

If you're having trouble following the information, which is very easily done when you have several people bombarding you, then copy to a word document & cut & paste it in chronological order of the information. Or print it out & cut and paste in reality.

I hope you're able to get further with this from the information that's been found.

Happy hunting.
Ozi.

And another child.

1901 England Census
Name: Sarah Downs
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Emma
Where born: Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 195 Harold Rd

Occupation: too difficult to read, it's been scrawled through

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Plaistow
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 183
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Downs 42
Mabel Downs 12 - Poplar
Albert Downs 9 - Poplar
Emma Charter 70 - mother; widow; Staffordshire [Did Emma remarry? Though the image looks more like Chester.]

?????

Marriages Jun 1879
CHESTER James Cannock 6b 565 <<<<<<<<<<
HARRIS Mary Cannock 6b 565
Hayr James Cannock 6b 565
Richmond Emma Cannock 6b 565 <<<<<<<<<<<<<

Hmmmmm.

1881 England Census
Name: Emma Chester
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: James
Gender: Female
Civil parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: School Road
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Cannock
Sub-registration district: Brewood
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Chester 62 - locksmith; Brewood, Staffordshire
Emma Chester 52

The image has no place of birth for Emma.

???
Deaths Sep 1887
Chester James 68 Cannock 6b 244

1891 England Census
Name: Emmar Chester
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Tutbury, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Brewood
Ecclesiastical parish: Brewood
Town: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Grammar School, School St

Occupation: Cook

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: Cannock
Sub-registration district: Brewood

You see, it is worth going forward as well.

Hi there

I have established the following:

John (Ralph) Richmond m Emma Lester
"Vol 8 C page 585 - 1853 Jan-Mar.". - Marriage Certificate
birth of Sarah Hammersley Richmond 1855 - have her birth cert. here

Sarah Hammersley Richmond & John Samuel Downs
Married. Derby District
Jan-Mar 1877
Vol 7b
Page 541

I know 100% that Sophia born 22/2/1881 Poplar - as per her headstone in Timaru, NZ.
I had no idea that she had siblings... except for Amy b 1878??

I have a cousin, with whom I am going to take all this to and take it from there, as this is all so much information.

Thank you all so much for your help, otherwise would still be stumbling around in the dark.

As my daughter would say "you rock"...

Jane

Hello!
I also have Hammersleys in my tree and have been researching for a while, looking for a connection to the Potteries and think that the following may be of help?
Thomas Hammersley 1801 Staffs m. Ann N/K b.1796 Staffs.
Their children were:
Ralph b. 1826 Staffs
Mary b. 1821 Staffs
Titus b. 1837 Staffs (Potter).
Titus married another Ann N/K b. 1838 Fenton Staffs and their children were: Alfred b. 1867 Dresden Staffs, Gertrude A b. 1873 Dresden Staffs and Titus b. 1877 Dresden.
Ellen & Richard Reynolds 1827 Blyford Suffolk (Potter slip maker)'s children were Harriet 1868 Fenton Staffs, John 1875 Longton Staffs and Ann Jane 1877 Longton Staffs. At the 1881 census, they were living at 17 Adderley Terrace, Stoke On Trent, Staffs. I have always wondered where Ralph came in and had heard of the illegitimacy issues, but perhaps this might be a clue!
Jayne

Hello! This may be a bit late as I've only just managed (with help!) to get my head around these things called "threads"!! , so you may have already found the answer, but if not, I hope this may help?
I also have Hammersleys in my tree and have been researching for a while, looking for the connection to the Potteries and think that the following may be of help?
Thomas Hammersley 1801 Staffs m. Ann N/K b.1796 Staffs.
Their children were:
Ralph b. 1826 Staffs
Mary b. 1821 Staffs
Titus b. 1837 Staffs (Potter).
Titus married another Ann N/K b. 1838 Fenton Staffs and their children were: Alfred b. 1867 Dresden Staffs, Gertrude A b. 1873 Dresden Staffs and Titus b. 1877 Dresden.
Ellen & Richard Reynolds 1827 Blyford Suffolk (Potter slip maker)'s children were Harriet 1868 Fenton Staffs, John 1875 Longton Staffs and Ann Jane 1877 Longton Staffs. At the 1881 census, they were living at 17 Adderley Terrace, Stoke On Trent, Staffs. I have always wondered where Ralph came in and had heard of the illegitimacy issues, but perhaps this might be a clue!
Jayne

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