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Hello! This may be a bit late as I've only just managed (with help!) to get my head around these things called "threads"!! , so you may have already found the answer, but if not, I hope this may help?
I also have Hammersleys in my tree and have been researching for a while, looking for the connection to the Potteries and think that the following may be of help?
Thomas Hammersley 1801 Staffs m. Ann N/K b.1796 Staffs.
Their children were:
Ralph b. 1826 Staffs
Mary b. 1821 Staffs
Titus b. 1837 Staffs (Potter).
Titus married another Ann N/K b. 1838 Fenton Staffs and their children were: Alfred b. 1867 Dresden Staffs, Gertrude A b. 1873 Dresden Staffs and Titus b. 1877 Dresden.
Ellen & Richard Reynolds 1827 Blyford Suffolk (Potter slip maker)'s children were Harriet 1868 Fenton Staffs, John 1875 Longton Staffs and Ann Jane 1877 Longton Staffs. At the 1881 census, they were living at 17 Adderley Terrace, Stoke On Trent, Staffs. I have always wondered where Ralph came in and had heard of the illegitimacy issues, but perhaps this might be a clue!
Jayne

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Hello!
I also have Hammersleys in my tree and have been researching for a while, looking for a connection to the Potteries and think that the following may be of help?
Thomas Hammersley 1801 Staffs m. Ann N/K b.1796 Staffs.
Their children were:
Ralph b. 1826 Staffs
Mary b. 1821 Staffs
Titus b. 1837 Staffs (Potter).
Titus married another Ann N/K b. 1838 Fenton Staffs and their children were: Alfred b. 1867 Dresden Staffs, Gertrude A b. 1873 Dresden Staffs and Titus b. 1877 Dresden.
Ellen & Richard Reynolds 1827 Blyford Suffolk (Potter slip maker)'s children were Harriet 1868 Fenton Staffs, John 1875 Longton Staffs and Ann Jane 1877 Longton Staffs. At the 1881 census, they were living at 17 Adderley Terrace, Stoke On Trent, Staffs. I have always wondered where Ralph came in and had heard of the illegitimacy issues, but perhaps this might be a clue!
Jayne

Hi there

I have established the following:

John (Ralph) Richmond m Emma Lester
"Vol 8 C page 585 - 1853 Jan-Mar.". - Marriage Certificate
birth of Sarah Hammersley Richmond 1855 - have her birth cert. here

Sarah Hammersley Richmond & John Samuel Downs
Married. Derby District
Jan-Mar 1877
Vol 7b
Page 541

I know 100% that Sophia born 22/2/1881 Poplar - as per her headstone in Timaru, NZ.
I had no idea that she had siblings... except for Amy b 1878??

I have a cousin, with whom I am going to take all this to and take it from there, as this is all so much information.

Thank you all so much for your help, otherwise would still be stumbling around in the dark.

As my daughter would say "you rock"...

Jane

1891 England Census
Name: Emmar Chester
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Tutbury, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Brewood
Ecclesiastical parish: Brewood
Town: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Grammar School, School St

Occupation: Cook

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: Cannock
Sub-registration district: Brewood

You see, it is worth going forward as well.

Hmmmmm.

1881 England Census
Name: Emma Chester
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: James
Gender: Female
Civil parish: Brewood
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: School Road
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Cannock
Sub-registration district: Brewood
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Chester 62 - locksmith; Brewood, Staffordshire
Emma Chester 52

The image has no place of birth for Emma.

???
Deaths Sep 1887
Chester James 68 Cannock 6b 244

?????

Marriages Jun 1879
CHESTER James Cannock 6b 565 <<<<<<<<<<
HARRIS Mary Cannock 6b 565
Hayr James Cannock 6b 565
Richmond Emma Cannock 6b 565 <<<<<<<<<<<<<

And another child.

1901 England Census
Name: Sarah Downs
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Emma
Where born: Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 195 Harold Rd

Occupation: too difficult to read, it's been scrawled through

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Plaistow
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 183
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Downs 42
Mabel Downs 12 - Poplar
Albert Downs 9 - Poplar
Emma Charter 70 - mother; widow; Staffordshire [Did Emma remarry? Though the image looks more like Chester.]

Jane, Jacky found the John Richmond & Emma Lester connection earlier in this thread. That's why we've been following John in the census.

If you're having trouble following the information, which is very easily done when you have several people bombarding you, then copy to a word document & cut & paste it in chronological order of the information. Or print it out & cut and paste in reality.

I hope you're able to get further with this from the information that's been found.

Happy hunting.
Ozi.

jane
just found this it looks like sarah hammersley & her husband had more than 2 children not sure if you knew that as you only mention 2 but here is the rest


The 1891 Census
is provided in
association with:
You have saved this record to My Ancestry (Shoebox).
You have saved this record to My Ancestry (People I'm Looking For).
This record has been added to your shoebox.
1891 England Census
about Sarah Downs
Name: Sarah Downs
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Tutbury, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Tower Hamlet
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Downs 36
Sarah Downs 35
Jolly Downs 10
John R Downs 8
Ernest L Downs 6
Mabel E Downs 3

morning jane
to be honest i do think that your ralph & john are the same person especially with the same occupation been given but if your still not 100% sure i would order the marriage cert for the john richmond & emma lester in the 1st qtr of 1853 & as you know both fathers names this will solve it for you plus it will give witnesses names who could be either one of there siblings or a memeber of there family it what i have done in the past even if i have been 99% sure i have right family it pays to make 100% sure before adding to your tree as i found out to my cost a few years ago when i first started doing mine i got one person wrong & had to delete over 40 people from my tree who were wrong (lol )
good luck & keep us posted
jacky

UPDATE

I have managed to find that there are two seperate entries under Marriage records
for Jan-Mar 1853 ie 1 for John Richmond and 1 for Emma Lester.

As they both cross match to the same volume, month, year and page number I have taken it that I have found John "Ralph".ie .
Marriage Register.
"Vol 8 C page 585 - 1853 Jan-Mar.".


Would this be a fair assumption??

It certainly looks like Ralph & the John found with Sarah may be the same man as their occupations are the same.

If so Ralph must've been the name he went by. As his father was a John that is quite possible.

Please let us know how you go with the marriage cert.

Ozi.

Thanks for replying to my post. I only have a copy of her entry of birth:

4th March 1855
Father - Ralph Richmond (deceased) Publican
Mother - Emma Richmond
Burton upon Trent - Registration District
Tutbury is listed as the Sub-District.
?? also lists Stafford and Derby
Certificate No. 35050

Sarah Richmond m John Samuel Downs
daughters: Amy S. Downs
Sophia Polly Downs 22/2/1881

I am very new to this, and have become quite stumped
Kind regards
Jane Denley

???

1841 England Census
Name: John Richmond
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Hundred: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: Richmond Row

Occupation:

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Richmond 45 - confectioner; Scotland
Jane Richmond 45 - Scotland
Thomas Richmond 14
John Richmond 12
George Richmond 10
Robert Richmond 5
Janet Richmond 20 - Scotland
Margaret Richmond 20 - Scotland

i think the marriage in 1853 with emma lester & john richmond could be a good pssibility my advice to you jane is to risk the £7.00 & send for cert if father of emma is thomas you have lots of infomation to work with here

jacky

this is jackpot if we have the right emma lester



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Husband
Thomas Lester Pedigree


Birth: 23 AUG 1789 Abbots Bromley, Stafford, England
Christening:
Marriage: 10 JUN 1810 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



Father: Thomas Lester Family
Mother: Mary Paine


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wife
Sarah Parr Pedigree


Birth: 1789 Birmingham, Warwick, England
Christening:
Marriage: 10 JUN 1810 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Children

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Jane Lester Pedigree
Female

Birth:
Christening: 08 MAR 1812 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Mary Lester Pedigree
Female

Birth:
Christening: 13 FEB 1814 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. George Lester Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 24 DEC 1815 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Charles Lester Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 24 AUG 1817 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. John Lester Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 11 JUL 1819 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6. Ann Lester Pedigree
Female

Birth:
Christening: 16 SEP 1821 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. Sarah Lester Pedigree
Female

Birth:
Christening: 02 NOV 1823 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8. Charlotte Lester Pedigree
Female

Birth:
Christening: 08 JUL 1825 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9. Thomas Lester Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 24 JUN 1827 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10. Ann Lester Pedigree
Female

Birth:
Christening: 08 MAR 1829 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11. Emma Lester Pedigree
Female

Birth:
Christening: 20 FEB 1831 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12. Joseph Lester Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 23 DEC 1832 Tutbury, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:

no Ralph Richmond born on IGI searching.

1851 England Census
Name: Emma Lester
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Tulbary, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Poynton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address: The Village

Occupation: General Servant

Registration district: Macclesfield
Sub-registration district: Prestbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 103
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Taylor 39
Louisa Taylor 37
John Taylor 19
Kate Taylor 9
Ann Taylor 8
Mary Taylor 5
William Taylor 2
Emma Lester 20

1861 England Census
Name: Emma Richmand
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Tutbury, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Marchington
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Village

Occupation: Housekeeper

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: Uttoxeter
Sub-registration district: Sudbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Genard 52
Thomas Genard 5
Emma Richmand 30
Thomas Bird 20

I've also found this.

1851 England Census
Name: John Richmond
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Lpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 32 Paddington

Occupation: Victualler

Condition as to marriage:

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 1l
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
John Richmond 22
Sarah Richmond 27 - Tutbury
Francis Lester 7 - nephew
Hannah Kirkpatrick 18 - servant



Update: Do you think they may be related? John could be husband to both Sarah & Emma. According to the christenings found on IGI Sarah would be the right age.

Marriages Sep 1849
Baillie Jane Liverpool 20 205
Baillie Peter Liverpool 20 205
Brooks Edward Liverpool 20 205
Crellin Elizabeth Liverpool 20 205
Denney Elizabeth Liverpool 20 205
Flaskett Daniel Liverpool 20 205
Lester Sarah Liverpool 20 205 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Richmond John Liverpool 20 205 <<<<<<<<<<<
Thomas Sarah Brock Liverpool 20 205


Deaths Sep 1852
RICHMOND Sarah W Derby 8b 339