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Hi Dea & Catherine you must have the patience of Saints thank you very much for your time and effort it is much appreciated.
Will start looking into all these facts you've found me
thanks again Clive

1911 search

First names GEORGE ALFRED
Birth Year 1867
Birth Year +/- 3 years
Birth Place MACCLESFIELD
County Lancashire

only one
HOUSEHOLD PROCTOR GEORGE ALFRED M 1867 44 Manchester Lancashire

so this looks like the follow on from the 1901 census. Would be interesting to see who is living in the house with him.

a search for daughter Bertha
First names BERTHA
First names Algorithm Exact
Last names PROCTOR
Birth Year 1897
Birth Year +/- 1 years
Birth Place MANCHESTER
County Lancashire

only showed one
INSTITUTION PROCTOR BERTHA F 1898 13 Leigh Lancashire

so what kind of institution was she in?


I'm away for the weekend so will look in again when I get back.
Catherine

I thought this family was interesting because of the address and one of the children is Bertha which is one of Joseph and Annie's children.

The same family going backwards 1881:-
Name: Frederick G. Collins
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Chorlton On Medlock
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 35 Couplana St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Occupation: Police Constable

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Chorlton Upon Medlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick G. Collins 34
Elizabeth Collins 27 born: Belfast
Catherine Dunseath 55 - Mother in law - born: Antrim, Ireland
Grace Dunseath 16 - Sister in law - born: Belfast, Ireland
Bertha Collins 3 - Daughter
Frederick A. Collins 1 - Son
Anne Myra Madge 5 - Step Child - born: Belfast

Hi Catherine, I had been thinking along the same lines but was unable to find anything to connect.

The 1891 you have looks very interesting - I have been trying to follow it through but again can't connect it up.

By 1901 - all the Collins children are scattered - Gilbert is in the Workhouse and others are elsewhere
- THIS looks interesting though but again, I cannot connect it:

Following Elizabeth B - I find her boarding with an Annie MM Proctor (who could well be 'our' Annie
- her sister.........? - I can't find the Proctor marriage to fit it together though....draaattt !

See what you think?

1901 England Census
about Elizabeth B Collins
Name: Elizabeth B Collins
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Salford Stowell Memorial
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 54
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 44
Household Members: Name Age
George A Prescton 35 ......................Proctor on image
Annie M M Prescton 26 ....................born Belfast.
Bertha Prescton 4 .........birth reg as PROCTOR !!
Elizabeth B Collins 18

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3738; Folio: 145; Page: 7.

........have to go just now - will try to get back later.

Dea x

Just had another thought. Taylor isn't a particularly Irish name so could be that Taylor was not Annie's maiden name but that she was married before to someone called Taylor.

In 1891 census there are a couple of Annies born correct time in Ireland living in Chorlton:-


Name: Annie Wilton (could also be Willon)
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph J
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Newry, Ireland

Civil parish: Chorlton On Medlock
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Joseph J Wilton 47 born: Newcastle, Staffordshire
Eliza Wilton 45 born: Wchenor, Sussex
Annie Wilton 15

and this one which looks very interesting:-

Name: Annie Myra Madge
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Chorlton On Medlock
Ecclesiastical parish: St Ambrose
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Frederick G Collins 46 born: London
Elizabeth Collins 36 born: Ireland
Annie Myra Madge 15
Bertha Collins 13 born: Manchester, Lancashire
Frederick A Collins 11 (All born Manchester)
Ernest G Collins 9
Elizabeth B Collins 7
Midge Collins 5
Gilbert P Collins 1

the address for this one is 35 Coupland Street which is the same Street given for Joseph's (father) address on Joseph's Army Record.
This could be worth following up?

The 1905 marriage looks interesting, and just thought the Yorkshire one can't be correct as Joseph was unmarried and living with his parents in 1901 so he can't have married in 1900, silly me!


This looks like the birth of the youngest child in the 1911 census, pity it was just before the date when mothers maiden name is shown:-
Births Dec 1910 (>99%)
LEWIS Mary Chorlton 8c 801
could be a good idea to buy the cert. to see for certain what the maiden name is.



I checked to see if there were any births after 1911 for Lewis - Taylor and there are quite a few more:-
Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
Lewis Joseph Taylor Chorlton 8c 1478
Births Sep 1913 (>99%)
Lewis William Taylor Chorlton 8c 1448
Births Dec 1913 (>99%)
Lewis Edith Taylor Chorlton 8c 1396
Births Mar 1914 (>99%)
LEWIS Stanley Taylor Chorlton 8c 1496

Births Sep 1915 (>99%)
Lewis Samuel S Taylor Chorlton 8c 1253
Births Jun 1916 (>99%)
Lewis Martha Taylor Chorlton 8c 1197
Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Lewis Albert Taylor Chorlton 8c 1562
Births Sep 1921 (>99%)
Lewis Harold Taylor Chorlton 8c 1473
Births Sep 1922 (>99%)
Lewis May Taylor Chorlton 8c 1200

some going after the 1914 death date of Joseph, however there are two births in 1913 so it could be that there are two Lewis - Taylor couples.


EDIT:-
There is another couple-
Marriages Dec 1912 (>99%)
Lewis Frank (Taylor) Chorlton 8c 1278
Taylor Elicia A (Lewis) Chorlton 8c 1278

so some of those births after 1912 are more than likely theirs. I would say that one of the 1913 births would be Joseph's and the other would belong to this couple, but to know which one you would need to buy the certs. It is also possible that the 1912 belongs to Joseph too, but there again nothing is certain.

Hi Dea
I'm sorry I've not got a clue wheter she re-married as th lady who gave me some of the info is well in her 80's and can't remember a lot only a few names and the Irish connection.

Thanks Clive

Can't find a re-marriage for her in the Manchester area.

Do you know if she ever did marry again?

Dea x

I am also 'leaning towards this for a possible marriage??

COWEN Frances Ellen Chorlton.8c 1515 3 1905
GREEN Charles William Chorlton.8c 1515 3 1905

LEWIS Joseph Chorlton.8c 1515 3 1905 ????????
TAYLOR Annie Chorlton.8c 1515 3 1905 ????????

I can see no births registered for Gladys or Sarah under the name Lewis but there ARE
possibles under the name Taylor !

We really need to find Annie Taylor born in Ireland on 1901 to see if it works !

They probably said they had been married 10 years on 1911 census as the eldest child was 9 years old ?

Have to go off for a while but will look later!

Dea x

I would be 'sorely tempted' to go for that 1884 birth cert - It fits with his age on 2 census's and doesn't seem to fit anyone else!!

As he seems to have acquired a 'wife' and family at a very early age and she is somewhat older than him, I believe he probably 'added a few years'?

Dea x

That would explain why I couldn't find any more births after 1911. I always find that sad when you find info like that.

Must sign off now, Clive, but will look in later.
Catherine

Sadly, - Yes, he did!

LEWIS, JOSEPH
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Grenadier Guards
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 34
Date of Death: 24/11/1914
Service No: 10495
Additional information: Son of Joseph Lewis, of 6, Coupland St., Chorlton-on-Medlock; husband of Annie Lewis, of 130, Higher Cambridge St., Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 1.
Memorial: PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL


Maybe you could get his Army Records?

Dea x

Did Joseph Jnr die in WW1?

Name - LEWIS Joseph
Place of Birth - BRIGHTON
Place of Enlistment - MANCHESTER
Place of Residence -
Soldier Number - 10495
Rank - GUARDSMAN
How they died - Killed in Action
Place of death - F & F
Date of Death (dd/mm/yyyy) - 24/11/1914
Regiment - FOOT GUARDS (INCLUDING GUARDS MACHINE GUN REGIMENT)
Battalion - GRENADIER GUARDS 1ST BATTALION
Service - ARMY
Notes -

Dea x

Thanks to you all,you have really given me something to go at.
I think the age of Joseph junior will forever remain a mystery.

Thanks again Clive

There are six marriages between 1891 and 1901 for Joseph Lewis - Mary ?

Marriages Sep 1891 (>99%)
Lewis Joseph Salford 8d 50
Marriages Dec 1894 (>99%)
Lewis Joseph Prestwich 8d 492
Marriages Jun 1895 (>99%)
Lewis Joseph Oldham 8d 1140
Marriages Mar 1896 (>99%)
Lewis Joseph Liverpool 8b 128
Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
Lewis Joseph Garstang 8e 1392

Marriages Mar 1901 (>99%)
LEWIS Joseph Chorlton 8c 1098

The Chorlton one is the one I posted before, so could it be the second marriage of Joseph (the father) ?

possible marriage of Joseph and Elizabeth:-

Marriages Mar 1884 (>99%)
Donegan Margaret Brighton 2b 347
Johnson Henry Brighton 2b 347

LEWIS Joseph Brighton 2b 347
Linfield Elizabeth Brighton 2b 347
STONE Elizabeth Isle Of Wight 2b 347

1891 ?
Name: Joseph Lewis
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Pendleton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Pendleton
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Lewis 32 - Ireland (Horsekeeper)
Elizabeth Lewis 29 - born: Horsham, Sussex
Joseph Lewis 6
Mary Lewis 3 - born: Pendleton, Lancashire

I've been thinking about 1901 census. I'm wondering if Joseph (father) was married twice as there seems to be a bit of a gap between the age of Joseph and Lily.

Sorry Clive didn't see your posting there as I was adding a bit onto the bottom of the 1901 census. Didn't expect you to be on line.
Wortley is West Yorkshire.
Could be a good idea to look for the rest of the family on 1911 census.


Dea,
1911 census has them married for 10 years and Joseph as being born in 1880, but birth does seem to fit too so.................?

Hi,

I have them on 1901 and father Joseph's birth place says quite clearly 'Parsons Town.

There is a Parsonstown' in Co Tipperary - I found this website which lets you search their Bmd's:

http://www.from-ireland.net/extrs/p/parsonsmarrs1.htm

I will go and see if I can find anything.

- Are you sure he Joseph married in 1901 - On 1901 census his age is given as 16 - This would no doubt be his birth reg:

Births Jun 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lewis Joseph Brighton 2b 275

Dea x