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Hm, the URL works fine for me - and if you go to that record, the marriage, at FreeBMD, you just click on the postem beside Anastasia's name.

This is what it says:

Anastasia Sadler and John Johnstone were my gg grandparents. Their child Elizabeth Sarah Johnstone was my ggrandmother. Anyone who knows anything about them please contact me

and I'll send you the contact info.

I would like to thank you all for your perseverence with this, I`ve just come in from looking after my grandchildren all day and you have put so much information on here.

Can I give you the info from certs I have, I may have already put it on here.
Birth of
Charles Hodges Johnston on 17th August 1860 at 30 St. Batholomew Place, Hackney.
His parents John Johnston and Anastasia Johnston nee Sadler
Death of
Charles Hodges{Hedges} Johnston on 2nd October 1907 in Hackney Infirmary. As an inquest was held there is no name for informant ,only that the coroner had dealt with it
Birth of John Charles Johnston on 8th May 1889 at 2 Derby Road, Hackney.
His parents on cert
Charles Hodges Johnston and Emily Johnston formerly NETHERCOTT
Registered on18th June 1889.

Birth cert of
Thomas Alfred Johnston on 14th February 1902 at 64, Blomfield Street,Dalston,Hackney.
Parents on cert
Charles Hodges Johnston and Emily Johnston formerly HOOKER
Registered 2nd April 1902

So we [the family}are presuming that Charles Hodges married twice, but from your messages and information it`s possible that they were not married.

I`ve tried the web site you listed for Anastaia Sadler but couldn`t get it to come up on screen.If you can PM me to let me have the email address I will contact her

Isn't our problem that we don't actually know that Emily married Johnston(e)?

She could have formed a household with / married someone totally different after 1891 (or after Charles died in 1907), and died under that surname ...

I can't seem to find an appropriate death for Emily Johnstone on FreeBMD. I was hoping to find this to help establish the age and therefore which Emily it might be.

Can anyone else have another look?

Thank

Should have pursued that spelling ...


The Agnes in the IGI:

AGNES JANE NETHERCOTT
Birth: 16 MAY 1857

Deaths Dec 1858
Neathercott Agnes Bethnal Gn 1c 235


But nothing else useful -- the Emily marriage in Islington in 1891 is undoubtedly the Emily Nethercott born in Islington in 1878.

Looks like William's death! That spelling had appeared in the IGI or someplace, and I'd tried it in 1881, but to no avail ...

Since MA told us William died at 44, I suspect that's one more record she had that we didn't; or she just had somebody's report of it.

Does this fit in?

Deaths Jun 1870
Neathercot William 44 Bethnal Green 1c 190

For info


Marriages Mar 1856
Bligand Henry Islington 1b 207
> JOHNSTONE John Islington 1b 207
REEVES Catherine Islington 1b 207
> SADLER Anastasia Islington 1b 207


MA, you have seen that -- and the postem placed on Anastasia's entry at FreeBMD by a gr-grandchild of their daughter Elizabeth Sarah Johnstone?

http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=24050504&d=bmd_1250161919

The postem contains a name and email address for the gr-granddaughter.

Are you in touch?

MA - it certainly looks like your man then. I've had no luck in 1901.

Ozi.

Charles Hodges Johnston born 17th August 1860 to John Johnston and Anastasia Johnston nee Sadler at 30 St Bartholomew Place Hackney London

Hodges is a maternal family name so we know we have the right Johnston.
There is a dedicated web site to the Johnston Family in Scotland created by a genealogist who is a family member. He hasn`t looked at this part of the family as he has been tracing his own part of the tree. I need to get this sorted for my own sake .

I was thinking Caroline could have registered Emily as a Nethercott, even if Hooker was her father. Emily found out later, used Hooker on her children's later birth certs.


The two kids' births, just for ref.

Births Jun 1889
Johnston John Charles Hackney 1b 502

Births Jun 1891
Johnston Charles Henry Hackney 1b 487


Oops, you done that too, Ozi, but we'll leave this just to have 'em both together. ;)

Births Jun 1891
Johnston Charles Henry Hackney 1b 487

Deaths Dec 1891
Johnston Anasthasia 61 Hackney 1b 314

Are you sure Charles Hodges Johnston is your man at all? This one seems to be the right age. Have you seen the birth cert? Is Hodges actually on there?
Deaths Sep 1892
Johnston Charles 32 Hackney 1b 227

??????????
Births Sep 1892
Johnston Emily Hannah Hackney 1b 438

Possibility, Janey????? Although I think MA said she had Emily's birth cert.

Births Jun 1869
Hooker Emily Rose Bethnal Green 1c 245

He didn't move very far in 1891, did he?

1881 England Census
Name: Charles Johnston
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St John Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 11 Hertford Road

Occupation: Labour Dustman
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 23d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Johnston 58 - dustman; born Dunbartonshire, Scotland
Annie Johnston 51 - born Cossey, Norfolk
George Johnston 22
Charles Johnston 20
James Johnston 18
Elizabeth Johnston 15
Robert Johnston 12
Francis Johnston 7
Frederick Roberts 19 - lodger


1871 England Census
Name: Charles Johnstone
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Anastasia
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 25 Hertford Road

Occupation: general labourer
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 20b
Household schedule number: 640
Household Members:
Name Age
John Johnstone 40 - Scotland
Anastasia Johnstone 41 - Norfolk
John Johnstone 14 - St Pancras
George Johnstone 12 - Windsor, berkshire
Charles Johnstone 10
James Johnstone 8
Elizabeth Johnstone 5
Robert Johnstone 3
George Leggs 39 - lodger

All other children born Hackney.

For info, from IGI:

Birth/Christening, British Isles
Father: William Nethercott, Mother: Caroline

SOPHIA ALICE NETHERCOTT
Birth: 15 SEP 1864

AGNES JANE NETHERCOTT
Birth: 16 MAY 1857

SARAH JANE NETHERCOTT
Birth: 16 JUL 1867


No Emily. The dates of birth are taken from christening records, I believe (those records are also there). Emily may not have been christened Nethercott.

[Urgh, I'm losing it. Sophia gave the two 1871 daughers already. But just to establish -- there is no Emily in the list of births to the couple.]


>William died c1870 age 44

"c" 1870? No record of death? Not that I see. So, *how do you know this*??

Per the 1861, he was born c1825, for info.

But here's a scenario. Emily was registered as Nethercott, but was Henry Hooker's daughter.


Possible birth for William Nethercott ... who may not be your ancestor. ;)

WILLIAM NETHERCOTT
Christening: 10 JUL 1825 St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England
Father: THOMAS JASPAR NETHERCOTT
Mother: FLORENCE
Batch No.: C025576

I'm with you, Janey.

Unless Emily Hooker is known from a sighted child's cert and that child is actually known to belong to the Charles Hodges/Hedges Johnston/Johnstone who is their ancestor, I think she's a red herring. I'm not being silly here. Often cousins can have the same unusual name and confuse the issue.

MA - your info from your family member is in a total mess. They probably did some of the research before online records made it a lot easier.

I think you need to start afresh.

Has anyone got Charles's death cert to find out the informant? I think that is where you need to start.

Ozi.

Oh lord, Ozi. I tried JOHNSON, JOHN*ON, eventually JOHN* and still didn't find that.


I still don't know --

"It`s these parents marriage that is a mystery as is the Hooker/Lusby scenario."

-- what earthly scenario this is ...

But now, okay, the name HOOKER appears for the mother of a child of Charles Hodges Johnston.

But where does a birth in Kent 1885/6 come from?

MA - yes, I have been keeping an eye on the thread and reading all the messages.

Finding them in 1891 isn't helping solve the puzzle though.

Ozi.

It's a complete muddle and it just doesn't support anything you have said!!!!!



> This is taken from a family member who has looked it up but not given any census dates apart from;CHJ in 1881 census shown as single living with parents working as a Journeyman Farrier.

Okay.


> Birth cert of Emily Nethercott 29th Sept 1869at 61 Squirries Street, Bethnal Green, father William Nethercott,mother Caroline Nethercott nee Lyons. 1871 census shows Caroline a widow with 4 children,Mary ann, Sophia Alice, Sarah Jane and Emily still at above address. The birth cert of Mary Ann shows same parents as Emily.

Okay. You knew that all but didn't mention it, so we went looking for it and "found" it in this thread.


> William [Nethercott] died c1870 age 44. Living at the same address is a Henry Hooker. We don`t know if Henry was related to Emily Hooker.

I still don't know who Emily Hooker is, where she came from, and how she comes into this!!!

Where do you have her name from??

What year is Henry Hooker at the address?

Okay. 1871:

Caroline Nethercott + daughters, 61 Squirres St, household schedule 522.
Emily is aged 2.

Henry Hooker, head of third household at 61 Squirres St, household schedule 523a.
Head, unmarried, aged 27, gilder carver?, born Bethnal Green.

In 1881, at 61 Squirrie St (likely the correct name), There are Thompsons and Bridges. No Nethercotts or Hookers.


> In 1861 census the name of Williams wife is shown as Katherine Lusby aged 30 there are some alterations to change it to Caroline.

That's an unfortunate mess, that is. It does look, though, as if they are errors and corrected -- 2-yr-old Mary Ann Nethercott was first entered as wife, and under her is Katherine Lusby, entirely crossed through and replaced by Caroline, wife, tailoress. The age doesn't match Caroline in 1871; it may have been uncorrected.


> In 1847 there are marriages in Shoreditch Q1 Vol 2 Page 330 are names of Caroline Lyons and James Lusby.We don`t have the cert but it seems they married each other.

You need to do the math! Caroline Nethercott could not have married in 1847. (well, maybe, just barely ...) I don't know why you're even considering that marriage as related to you at all. Seems to me Katherine Lusby was an innocent bystander who got mis-entered on the census and that probably omitted altogether.

Looking at the previous census page, the household at the bottom also had the wife omitted, and then squashed in between lines. This was a careless census official.



But back to the big question.

Could you *please* explain who Emily Hooker is, where you have her name from, what her connection is, how she could have had four children by 1907 when she was born 1885/86 (yes, possible, but likely?) -- since she very certainly could *not* have married 1892-4 if she was born 1885/86.


You seem to be chasing red herrings all over the place. Nobody can help you sort them out unless you tell us where the information is coming from!

"a family member who has looked it up" isn't a source. We need to know where the family member was looking it up, and what it actually said. ;)