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That is possible.

Isabella and Henry I cannot see a connection as yet.

There seem to be so many variations on a rare name.

martin married into my tree but I like to fill in the parents and siblings to give confirmation to my tree.

the only other maybe related things I can see are these deaths

Mary Wegner abt 1807 Oct-Nov-Dec 1879 St Olave Southwark

Henry Wegner abt 1811 Apr-May-Jun 1874 St Olave Southwark

Isabella Wegener Jul-Aug-Sep 1864 St George Southwark

?

that Mary could be Luda... :-)

Thankyou Chrissiex. :-D

Very helpful.

I opened this thread a few days ago because of the interesting names and then I went to another tab and forgot to go back to this one, I have just seen it again ... I need to keep closer tabs on my tabs :-)

could Ludewary ( she is Ludeway at ancestry and that is how it looks ) be this person in 1861 ?

Name: Elizabeth Weigner
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1804
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Horslydown, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Southwark St John Horsleydown
County/Island: Surrey

Mary A Sawyer 48
Stephen Morris 63
Elizabeth Weigner 57


this would be mother's death ?

Elizabeth Weegner Apr-May-Jun 1854 St Olave Southwark

An update.


Still no nearer to solving the 1851 mysrery as to why Matin appears to have changed his nime but I have found this baptism

London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
about Martin David Weegner
Name:Martin David Weegner
Baptism Date:4 Feb 1810
Parish:St John Horselydown
County:Surrey
Borough:Southwark
Parent(s):
Charles Weegner, a mariner
Elizabeth Weegner
Record Type:Baptism


London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
about Jane Weegner
Name:Jane Weegner
Baptism Date:23 Oct 1803
Parish:St John Horselydown
County:Surrey
Borough:Southwark
Parent(s):
Charles Weegner,
Elizabeth Weegner
Record Type:Baptism

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Louisa Weegner
Name:Louisa Weegner
Record Type:Baptism
Estimated Birth Date:abt 1815
Baptism Date:15 Feb 1815
Father's Name:Charles Weegner
Mother's Name:Elizabeth Weegner
Parish or Poor Law Union:Horselydown St John
Borough:Southwark

1851 census - household transcription
Address: 14, Vine Yard, Saint Johns, Southwark
WEEGNER, Elizabeth Mother Widow F 84 1767 Dartmouth Devonshire
WEEGNER, Ludewary Daughter Unmarried F 44 1807 Charwoman Horselydown Surrey

I am not sure who Ludewary is supposed to be.

I have joined Ancestry now so will attempt a correction myself.

Still need to track the Weigners bur there are many possible mistranscriptions. I still do not have enough detail to make a definite match. And still no Catherine in 1841.

The family mainly lived in Greenwich in the streets by the maritime museum and also a little further along the river in Woolwich by the old ferry approach.

I am at work now so will catch up later.

Thanks JC

I have details of Henry and Sarah and most of the other Baulf family. It is a fairly rare name.

Henry Baulf was Mary Baulf/Weigner's brother.

Charlotte Margetts nee Baulf was a sister.

I wonder if Mary''s age was wrong.

This would be grandmother's details below

MARY RATTLE Pedigree
Christening: MAY 1778 St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England
Parents:
Father: CHARLES RATTLE Family
Mother: SARAH

Extracted birth
C025574

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 17

Month: 5

Year: 1778

Forename: Mary

Othernames:

Surname: Rattle

Fathers forenames: Charles
Mothers forenames: Sarah
Birth date:
Address: Ch Lane
Location of church: Whitechapel
Parish: St Mary
Church address: Whitechapel Road
Entry No: 2823
Source Ref: X024/089




Found Mary Baulf (Rattle) on 1841 census living with daughter Charlotte in Greenwich.
1841 Queen Street, Greenwich
MAYETTE, Charlotte F 20 Kent (Margetts)
MAYETTE, Elizabeth F 2 Kent (Margetts)
MAYETTE, George M 0 (3 months) Kent (Margetts)
BAULF, Mary F 60 Kent
WEIGNER, Martin M 30 Kent
WEIGNER, Mary F 30 Kent
WEIGNER, Charles M 4 Kent
CARR, Mary Ann F 56

Mary died on the 4th sep 1855 and was buried on the 07.09.1855

This is Henry Baulf in 1841 in case it's of interest.

Name: Henry Bault
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Where born: Kent, England

Civil parish: Greenwich
County/Island: Kent

Henry Bault 30 - fisherman
Sarah Bault 30
Henry Robert D 3 Mo


Do you want names corrected at Ancestry?


HENRY BAULF
Christening: 25 SEP 1807 St Alphage, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: PETER BAULF
Mother: MARY
Source Information: C006321


Yeh, sibling of Mary 1809, Elizabeth Ann 1813, Catharine 1815.

Catching up can take some time ... have we noticed that the next household on the page in 1851 is Henry Baulf, fisherman, and wife Sarah? Do you know how they fit in?

That was my thinking: Thomas Waggoner in 1851 is possibly a brother of Martin David Weigner.

He may have taken on MDW's children on his death. Or the enumerator, who does seem to have been a slapdash type, may have just assumed. Not uncommon.

Thomas is old enough to have a child of his own who is Catherine's parent - yikes, no, you're right, he isn't.

Also note that Mary Baulf is listed second-last in the household. It's possible that Catherine is meant to show as her grandchild (but the age problem is the same).

Possible death son


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Robert Wagnor
Name: Robert Wagnor
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 25
District: Greenwich
County: Greater London, Kent, London
Volume: 1d
Page: 593 (click to see others on page)

I have a puzzle.

SUMMARY OF PREVIUS POSTS

Mary Baulf 1809 married Martin David Weigner.
She died 1850

1841 Address: Queen Street, Greenwich
MAYETTE, Charlotte F 20 1821 Kent (Margetts}nee baulf
MAYETTE, Elizabeth F 2 1839 Kent
MAYETTE, George M 0 (3 months) 1841 Kent
BAULF, Mary F 60 1781 Kent
WEIGNER, Martin M 30 1811 Kent
WEIGNER, Mary F 30 1811 Kent nee Baulf
WEIGNER, Charles M 4 1837 Kent
CARR, Mary Ann F 56 1785


London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
about Mary Waggoner
Name: Mary Waggoner
Record Type: Burial
Event Date: 6 Mar 1850
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1810
Parish: Saint Alfege
Borough: Greenwich
County: Middlesex
Died Feb 28, 1850 lived at Queen Street.

They have 3 children I have tracked down.


CHARLES HENRY WEEGNEER
Male
Christening:
08 NOV 1837 St Alphage, Greenwich, Kent, England
Parents:
Father: MARTIN WEEGNEER
Family
Mother: MARY
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Charles Henry Weegncer
Name: Charles Henry Weegncer
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 8 Nov 1837
Father's Name: Martin Weegncer
Mother's Name: Mary Weegncer
Parish: Saint Alfege
Borough: Greenwich
County: Middlesex
Born 7 Jan, living Queen Street, father waterman.

MARY JANE WEEGNER
Birth:
Christening: 30 JUN 1843 St Alphage, Greenwich, Kent, England
Parents:
Father: MARTIN DAVID WEEGNER Family
Mother: MARY
C006324

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Mary Jane Wegner
Name: Mary Jane Wegner
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 30 Jun 1843
Father's Name: Martin David Wegner
Mother's Name: Mary Wegner
Parish: Saint Alfege
Borough: Greenwich
County: Middlesex
Born 9th June, living at Queen Street, father waterman.
but also compare
Births Sep 1843 (>99%)
WEEGNER Mary Elizabeth Greenwich 5 214


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Robert Waggner
Name: Robert Waggner
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 22 Sep 1854
Father's Name: Martie David Waggner
Mother's Name: Mary Waggner
Parish: Saint Alfege

1851 census - household transcription
Person: BAULF, Mary
Address: 12, Queen Street, Greenwich
(next door to Henry Baulf and Sarah Mee)
WAGGONER, Thomas Head Widower M 45 1806 Waterman
London
Middlesex
WAGGONER, Charles Son Unmarried M 14 1837 Factory Boy (Rope & Twine)
Greenwich
Kent
WAGGONER, Robert Son Unmarried M 5 1846 Scholar (Ragged)
Greenwich
Kent
BAULF, Mary Widow F 45 1806 Washerwoman
Southwark
Surrey
WAGGONER, Catherine Grand Child Unmarried F 14 1837 Factory Girl (Rope & Twine)
Greenwich
Kent

1861 census - household transcription
Person: WEIGNER, Robert
Vessel: Typher Smack Fishing
Port/place: Grimsby
WEIGNER, Robert M 16 1845 Lad
Greenwich
Kent

Question
Who is Thomas Waggoner? Is this Martin or a brother?

Which Mary Baulf is this?

Whose grand child is Catherine and who are her parents bearing in mind her age. Thomas is only 45 so would have been 30 at time of her birth.
And where are they 1841?

And I have been unable to track down the family after this apart from Robert in 1861.

Sorry I cannot see the image as FMP is still transcribing 1852.
Catherine would make sense though. That would be her aunts name.Thanks for tring.

If you look at the image it looks like 14 and could be Catherine its been overwritten a real mess.

edit me again, Factory girl Pipe and J or T maybe tobacco ?
Born Greenwich Kent

I am still unable to find anything outside of 1841 on FMP.
And I would like to know the parents of Christine.

How old is Christine in 1851? It is an unusual name for the timeperiod.

I am back now. I hope my connection is better now.

Does it say where Thoms was born? Martin was born Kent according to 1841.


This is the only Thomas b. 1806 in 1841


1841 census - household transcription
Person: WAGGONER, Thos
Address: Adams Street, West, St Marylebone, Marylebone


FURGERSON, Robert M 50 1791 Foreign VIEW
WAGGONER, Thos M 35 1806 Foreign VIEW
WILLS, John M 60 1781 VIEW
WILLS, Catherine F 60 1781 Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Thos M 45 1796 Middlesex VIEW
SMITH, Martha F 40 1801 Ireland VIEW
SHARPE, John M 50 1791 VIEW
SHARPE, Mary F 60 1781 VIEW
PARKER, Thos M 50 1791 VIEW
PARKER, Mary F 50 1791 VIEW
WALKER, Sarah F 25 1816 Middlesex VIEW
WILD, Mary F 65 1776 Middlesex VIEW
CURTIS, Elizth F 40 1801 Middlesex VIEW
FRANCES, Mary F 30 1811 Middlesex VIEW
FRANCES, John M 10 1831 Middlesex VIEW
FRANCES, Sarah F 5 1836 Middlesex VIEW
FRANCES, Ann F 3 1838 Middlesex

I have to go out for a while.

Arrrgh so long to post I am getting lost




OK so Mary Baulfe nee Clinker is with them in 1851

Robert Baulfe died 1846 and she married Richard in 1851.

So is Thomas actually Martin?

Try again. I have been booted off three times now.

Still tring to interpret 1851


Robert and Charles are listed as sons of Thomas a widower.
Christine is his grand daughter but Charles and Robert are too young to be her father. Charles and Robert baptisms state father is Martin David.
Mary is listed as a widow but she is mother to Charles and Robert and married ? Martin.

My head is spinning.