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Marriages Sep 1862
Downes Mary Ann Hereford 6a 773
? Jones Ann Hereford 6a 773
Lewis Samuel Hereford 6a 773
Watkins John Hereford 6a 773

Yes, now we can look for an Ann Jones in 1861 who matches Ann Watkins in 1871 ... hahaha ...

Marriages Jun 1870
? Keay Anne Hereford 6a 892
TAYLOR Elizabeth Hereford 6a 892
TAYLOR James Hereford 6a 892
Watkins John Hereford 6a 892

Marriages Jun 1871
SMITH Ann Hereford 6a 935
Watkins John Hereford 6a 935


Oh look! A Smith and a Jones!

But - could that be where the "Smith" in the tale came from?

Dea

I think your keyboard has gone more astray?? LOL


Tracey x

You are SO good janey.

Charles F Hayes 47 - clerk in Good Templar Office<<<<<Alfred joined them as he was so against the demon drink,must be how Eliza met hubby.
Elizabeth E Hayes 44 - born Devizes

What further info Dea?whom are you addressing there?
Me?Janey?Tracey?

See, now if I'd known Alfred joined the Good Templars ... and if I'd known what the Good Templars were ... ;)

I'm wondering about this Fred. In 1871, Ann Watkins, wife of John, was 45. Could Fred have been a son of hers? Fred Jones, Fred Smith ...

Do we know whether John and Ann were still living in 1881, and if so, where?

>> Eliza married in 1888, and if she met Charles Hayes through the Good Templar outfit ... oh, no, I see, it was Alfred, not John, who joined them. The 19th century equivalent of AlAnon for him, I guess. ;)

Oh and BTW I have a copy of Alfred and Harriets 1877 marriage,sorry I forgot about it til now...

And Alfred clearly has John Watkins,shoemaker for father.
No deceased on it.
Winesses
Eliza Jane Watkins and somebody called James Rowney.

Funny really as the Evans line was a walk in the park,and you would expect them to be REALLY difficult.

Eating time,

Edit,,,,the good templars were part of the Temperance movement I think,Google it I will,later,my tummy thinks my throat has been cut.

Hey Dea - I think the Perkins births and all are exactly on target. I'm using all that as the hypothesis for the rest!

It's just the Perkins to Watkins transition we need.

Just like with my Hill/Moncks. The one thing I did have, not at the beginning but after I'd found the Hills I decided were my Moncks, was when I found one of the Hills with Monck as a middle name. Clinched the identities. Then I found a reason (for my grx2 gf, the military desertion, but not for his sister, whose middle name it actually was, and who apparently switched first).

Here, the connections are all inference -- the Watkins-s look exactly like the Perkins-s. It's good enough for me, as the Hills being my Moncks pretty much was, but something to definitely link them -- the timing of the switch, a record that matches one of them under name A to him/herself under name B, and/or the reason would be nice to have!

Oh, oops, you edited, Dea.

What research are you saying isn't far off, that you're going to ditch??

Like I said, the Perkins + Brown marriage, the Perkins births, the Perkins-s in the workhouse -- isn't that what we're all taking as gospel now??

Hmm, I missed something on that 1851 census.

George Perkins 33 - born: Bromham
Caroline Perkins 30 - born: Brentford
> George Perkins 4 - born: Cripplegate, London
> Charles Perkins 2 - born: Shoreditch, London
Edwin Perkins 1 Mo - born: Bromham


By 1861, George and Charles could have been fending for themselves, and I'd have been missing them with the searches for Perkins born in Bromham/Devizes ...

Dear Dea.

I do want your research as I think its on the mark,and I believe it is the people I have been trying to follow.
Please dont "ditch"it I havent finished organising it in the file yet and if it goes I wont be able to finish copying it off.
And what further info were you after earlier?

viv thanks you Dea((((((((((((hug))))))))))))))))

Look who I found in 1871

Name: Frank Perkins
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Lodger
>>> Where born: Bromham, Wiltshire, England
Occupation: Labourer at oil mills

Civil parish: St John The Baptist
Town: Gloucester
County/Island: Gloucestershire


And look where he is in 1881:

Name: Frank A. Perkins
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Priscilla
Where born: Bromham, Wiltshire, England
Occupation: House Painter

Street Address: James Street Bk 21 2 House
Civil parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire

Frank A. Perkins 26
Priscilla Perkins 27
Agnes F. Perkins 2

Yes and I got him in 1881 on page 3 with the death of Edwin.

Aaaargh!! That one went right past me. What's this "Frank married a Perkins"?

- edit - oh, you meant AS Perkins.

Marriages Dec 1877
> Attwood Priscilla Birmingham 6d 370
Brown Catherine Birmingham 6d 370
Lewellyn John Birmingham 6d 370
> Perkins Frank Albert W Birmingham 6d 370


This is the certificate you want!!!!

If it has one of the Watkins-s on as a witness, it would be THE MISSING LINK.

Of course, it will also be verrrrry interesting to see who he puts as father!!


Aaaahh --

baptism: Frank Albert Perkins
marriage: Frank Albert **W** Perkins

Watkins???

Possible ???

Deaths Dec 1875 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WATKINS John 57 Hereford 6a 385

O.K.
Off to order the marriag,no time like the present.

I edited --


baptism: Frank Albert Perkins
marriage: Frank Albert **W** Perkins

Watkins???

Ordered,we shall see what we shall see on it then.

Just noticed your edit,,,,W,,,Watkins?highly likely then.

Why was he not with Alf and Eliza on 1871 as he was in between their births?

Placed out from the workhouse most like and wanted to stay there,or lost touch with the others,hence the retention of the Perkins?.

Aghhhh,,Frank Perkins and co go AWOL after 1881....

Oh you silly. Frank married to Priscilla should just about do it; I threw in place of residence, place of birth and approx date of birth.


Name: Frank R Watkin >> it says Frank *A* probably Watkins
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Priscilla
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Occupation: Foreman >> house painter

Civil parish: Aston

Frank R Watkin 36
Priscilla Watkin 34
Agnes H Watkin 12 >> it says Agnes F, as on the 1881
Frank D Watkin 9
Edwin D Watkin 8
Lilly Watkin 1
Elsia M Watkin 1/12
Florence England 18


BIG *^&%# Q.E.D.!!!!!!

If we could do html that would be in GREAT BIG LETTERS.

Births Mar 1879
Perkins Agnes Florence P Birmingham 6d 127

Notice the son is Edwin, too. And - Edwin who?

Births Mar 1883
Watkins Edwin Harold Aston 6d 324

The 1881 does say Edwin H.

It also says Frank H:

Births Sep 1881
Watkins Frank Henry P Aston 6d 361

P for Perkins?