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Hi Gina

I don't think trawling through parish records is going to help. This family has been mistranscribed seriously in 1841, I would love to find them. They must be called Smith or something, but I have run out of ideas.

Of course keep in touch, let us know if you find anything, and remind us later cos new records keep coming online.

Best wishes

Margaret

Short of visiting the place for a month and trawling through church records, gravestones etc, I don't know what else we can do. It is a little frustrating that she is the one child we can't find further info about.

Never mind, I guess we leave it for now at least, there appear to me many more mysteries to solve!

Thanks for your help.

We have lots of family from that area, Hardacres, Holts, Hackings, Bibbys, Chippendales...they didn't move around much in those days!

The rest of the tree comes from Northumberland it appears. One male ancestor was a victim of the Hartley disaster in 1861. Luckily for his lineage, he had had one son by then, but it is such a sad story.

Thanks again for your help
Keep in touch if you like?

Gina and Dafydd

Hi Gina

I suspect you are right that she died young. But how to prove it is another question. I have to say I have lots of rellies who disappeared without trace and I have just accepted it.

But I still think it is odd not to find a reasonable family in 1841 when you have so much info from lan-opc on their children. If we could find them then, with no Hannah, it would give some credence to the theory that she died.

And with the family apparently splitting up later, it is hard to track them too.

Incidentally, I have Catteralls in my family born Great Harwood - we might be related! Though I think yours are really Cotterills or similar.

Not sure how to help any further. What do you think? I don't like giving up.

Margaret

Our guess is that she died before 1837, and hence doesnt show up on the registers. How can we conform this, do you know?

Yes, we have the same details as you for John staying with his brother Joshua and sister in law Mary (and multitudes of baby bibbys).

Would you like to see our tree to see why we have a problem with Hannah?
We have details of the rest of the family, either marriages or deaths or both, but Hannah remains a mystery.

Joseph in 1861? with possible relatives.

1861 England Census
about Joseph Bibby
Name: Joseph Bibby
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Over Darwen
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Darwen
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 290
Household Members: Name Age
Joshua Bibby 35
Mary Bibby 36
James Henry Bibby 13
Joseph Bibby 11
Alice Bibby 8
Betsy Bibby 6
John Bibby 5
Hannah Bibby 3
Edward Bibby 8 Mo
Joseph Bibby 19

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Elizabeth Bibby
Name: Elizabeth Bibby
Year of Registration: 1857
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Blackburn
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 423 (click to see others on page)

Married Jacob Cottrill.

Do we think this is them in 1861?

1861 England Census
about John Bibby
Name: John Bibby
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Jacob
Mother's Name: Elizebeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Over Darwen, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Blackburn
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 172
Household Members: Name Age
Jacob Catteral 41
Elizebeth Catteral 55
Mary Catteral 13
John Bibby 14

Summat is wrong if we can't find a 1941 family.

Late at night, will look tomorrow.

Anyone else any ideas?

Lancashire bmd has the births of Joseph, Margaret, Thomas and William, mother Saterseth, Satterforth, Sathuset and Sathather respectively. The last 3 appear to have died as babies. No birth of John, and no death.

I still can't find a reasonable 1841 family. There should be John 1803, Betty 1804, Mary 1828, Hannah or Nancy 1831 or 1833, Sarah 1837, George 1839 and possibly Joe 1841.

By 1861, John is possibly dead (death 1855 age 52), as is Sarah (1858 age 21), but there should be Mary 1848.

Hmm

We have the death ribbon of Mary Ann.

the census of 1871 has mary ann the child of george and isabella

(http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/records/srimage.aspx?ff_type=24&key=927463)

this is from lan-pc;

Baptisms: 29 Aug 1869 St Thomas, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Bibby - Child of George Bibby & Isabella
Born: 22 Jul 1869
Abode: 61 Audley Lane
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: H. Nescoe
Register: Baptism 1865 - 1877, Page 57, Entry 567
Source: LDS Film 1470818

Hi Gina

I am looking for whatever you are looking for, just don't have the same information in front of me as you do.

So presumably you have the marriage cert of Mary Ann that shows her father as George? Do you also have the marriage cert of George and Isabella, which shows his father as John? And is John a publican? What date is that marriage and where did it take place?

Mary Ann Bibby(1869-1916) m David chippendale (1870-1915)
Her parents were George(1839-1915) and Isabella Stewart(1841-1917)
George was Hannahs brother.

Is that what you are looking for?

Thanks Ann. I've had so many computer problems these last few weeks that I've started to assume that its me. I;ve never before had a problem with Lancashire bmds though. Wonder if the others are down too?

Nope, not a problem with them - just the one I want! Sods law.

Gina, back to the beginning please. Assuming you are working backwards, which Bibby married your ancestor, and which ancestor and when and where?

YES..........ITS BEEN FOR MOST OF THE EVENING

ANN

Well, Bugger me, off to look on Lancashire bmd, and I am getting an error message, so can't proceed with that line.

Anybody else tried it?

Gina, so he was a Cotton Spinner and became a Publican? Is that the one? EDIT you just said that!

Children on lan-opc:

Hannah 1831, Nancy 1833, Magaret 1843 (John, cotton spinner, wife Betty)
Thomas 1845, John 1846, William 1847 (John, inn-keeper/publican, wife Betty)

First 2 born Blackburn, rest born Over Darwen.

1951 census previously found is the best so far.

I don't think either of the 1841s are quite right but I can't do any better. Odd.

John, her dad, was a spinner, but we think he changed jobs and became a publican at some point

we got the list from the http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
we put in bibby as a surname, john and betty as parents and looked for the ones that were in or near blackburn. Over Darwen was whre they lived

Ulverston? What are they doing there? what was dad's occupation?

I can't really search sensibly until you tell me how you know about all those children Gina.