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yes have that cert, father Thomas Pemberton mother Hannah Pemberton formerly white.

Have you got the birth cert of Oram Pemberton born Dec 1875?

Thanks, am assuming they come from one of Hannah's children. but just can't fit them in anywhere. Normally when that happens I just order the birth certs to be sure. At a loss with this one,But thank you for all your effort it's much appreciated. At least I now know it's not just me being thick that I can't find them :)

Linda, we do know all that in your summary.

What I was trying to do was find the births of the children Susanna and Orham under *whatever* surname they may have been registered, or have appeared in censuses. It doesn't do any good to say "I don't know" and not consider possibilities!

That Oron is the one good one so far.

One possibility is that they were children of a daughter of Hannah who might, if you were hugely lucky, have married the children's father later. One reason I looked for Barbara. They might also have been children of a son of Hannah, registered under their mother's surname. Etc.!

Janey thank you for the marriage ref, will order that cert and see if it's the right one.

sorry for delay in getting back to this thread, was late last night.

The only information I have for definate

1863 Birth of Thomas White no father.

1870 death of Thomas Pembertons first wife Fanny

1870 Hannah and Thomas Pembertons marriage cert

1875 Orams birth cert

1891 census Hannah is a widow

Thomas Pemberton doesn't appear to know where or when he was born,


The Children Horam/Susanah appear on the 1901

I can't locate a birth under either name in either Sheffield or Walsall to find who their parents were, nothing under marriages either

You have this btw?

Marriages Jun 1897
Foster James Walsall 6b 1160
Horne James Walsall 6b 1160
Pemberton Barbara Walsall 6b 1160
Wylie Maud Mary Walsall 6b 1160

Births Jun 1877
PEMBERTON Barbara Walsall 6b 723


1901

James Horne 26
Barbora Horne 24
Mary A Horne 3
Civil parish: Attercliffe Cum Darnall
Registration district: Sheffield

!!!! Oron Sr's middle name when he married

Births Sep 1891
Lunn Susanna Walsall 6b 661

Coincidence?
Very possibly. ;)

No apparent death for her to 1901, not in the 1901 census.

Marriages Jun 1914
>> Bailey Henry Lunn Walsall 6b 1437
Cooper Herbert Wootton Walsall 6b 1437
> Lunn Susan Bailey Walsall 6b 1437
> Lunn Susannah Bailey Walsall 6b 1437
Wootton Clara E Cooper Walsall 6b 1437

Best bet for her in 1911:

LUNN SUSAN F 1892 19 West Bromwich Staffordshire

living with
Patience 1859
Richard 1864
Katie 1889
Elsie 1894
Clara 1896

Yes of course, in 1901 Ancestry has them as Lum. So that kills her too! Dang dang dang x 2.



But we have one Oram in 1911. Major progress?!

Births Dec 1895 ???
Astley Oron Walsall 6b 762

Marriages Sep 1919
Astley Oram Margetts Nottingham 7b 1051

!!

Name: Oram Astley
Death Registration Month/Year: 1963
Age at death (estimated): 67
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 535

???


Nope. Kill that one. He's in the 1901 with parents William and Eliza. Dang dang dang.

Well, a glimmer?

Pembertons born in Darlaston, in the 1911

PEMBERTON ORON M 1876 35 Walsall Staffordshire
-- married, living with wife Sarah Ann 1879, chldren Norman, Frank, Eva and Alice

Marriages Dec 1901
>> EYRE Sarah Ann Sheffield 9c 1115
McGrah Mary Sheffield 9c 1115
>> PEMBERTON Oron Lunn Sheffield 9c 1115
WHITCHURCH Joseph Sheffield 9c 1115

I do believe we have found our Oram (Orham) 1875.


PEMBERTON GEORGE M 1883 28 Sheffield Yorkshire West Riding


Well. This Hannah was born in Walsall

PEMBERTON HANNAH MCNULTY F 1841 70 Chorlton Lancashire

She is living with a batch of Wilkinsons

John 1864
Annie 1868
Arthur 1894
Albert 1902
Florry 1907


Born in Darlaston, could match son Edwin/Edward, 3 in 1871:

WHITE EDWARD M 1857 54 West Bromwich Staffordshire

Do we have Hannah Pemberton's death? Just for a time and place ...

Born c1839 ... so rough matches for age would be:

Deaths Jun 1904
PEMBERTON Hannah 64 Mansfield 7b 33

Deaths Sep 1912
PEMBERTON Hannah 70 W.Derby 8b 592
- aged 69 in 1911 census, no Pemberton there living w/a Hannah who looks familiar

Deaths Dec 1917
Pemberton Hannah McN 77 Blackburn 8e 336
- McNulty per 1911 census

Mind you this one is closer to Hannah's home turf

Deaths Dec 1903
Pemberton Hannah 59 Walsall 6b 469


Thomas Pemberton was born in Lancashire, fwiw.

Deaths Mar 1890 ?
Pemberton Thomas 49 Walsall 6b 481

I'll bet we'll find one in another thread somewhere. ;)

I have absolutely no idea to what 1911 census I was referring. It migh come to me later, but at the moment I have not a clue.

What 1911 census MadMeg?

I think that was for a Hiram Pemberton who doesn't seem to be ours.

The question is: who are Susannah and Orham Pemberton? - what names were they registered in, who were their parents, where did they go ...

Danged if I know!

Hi Linda

Yes, you confused us, but let's forget about that now and deal with what we have.

Oram 1875, son of Thomas Pemberton and Hannah White. Born Dec. Walsall. Two possible birth regs so I assume you have the right one. Can you confirm that? Have you tried them both? What did the other one throw up?

In 1881 there is Hannah White with children, Horam b 1876, living Staffordshire.

In 1891 there is no Horam, either Pemberton or White. Hannah Pemberton and other children

In 1901, there is Orham Pemberton, b 1876 and Orham Pemberton b 1893 in Sheffield, and several siblings born Darlaston. Hannah is married, not a widow.

I think I have just posted the 1911 cencus.

So what is it you still want to know?

Thank you all for your help, I'm sorry for all the confusion.

so sorry for confusion :(

1861

Name: Hannah White
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Tipton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Darlaston
Ecclesiastical parish: Darlaston St George
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Darlaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 165
Household Members: Name Age
Jobe Taylor 22
Ann Taylor 22
Hannah White 23
Edwin White 3


1863 Thomas white born, no father on birth cert

1870 marriage (sorry I put 1872 earlier)
Thomas Pemberton aged 39 Bachelor/Hannah White aged 33 spinster

1871 she has changed the childrens names to Pemberton

Name: Hannah Pemberton
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Tipton, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Darlaston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Lawrence
Town: Darlaston
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Darlaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 114
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Pemberton 35
Hannah Pemberton 32
Edward Pemberton 12
Thomas Pemberton 10
Harriet Pemberton 5
Sarah Pemberton 2


1881 she is back as White

1891

Name: Hannah Pemberton
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Where born: Darlaston, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Darlaston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Lawrence
Town: Darlaston
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Darlaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Hannah Pemberton 54
James Pemberton 18
William Pemberton 16
Ann Pemberton 15
Barbara Pemberton 13
Joseph Pemberton 12
George Pemberton 8
Minnie Pemberton 5

1901 the family are now in sheffeild

Asking for help with the search without giving the available information -- like the fact that the older person in the family with the same name was actually registered with the spelling Oram -- just isn't helpful, sorry.

I've tried everything I can think of and come up with nothing. It doesn't help that their birthplace in 1901 is a ditto to Darlaston which makes it maybe a little suspicious, it could possibly be Sheffield (hence the interest in that Hiram understandably).

Oh Linda, you should have told us that at the outset. We have all been searching for the fella like mad.

You say she married Thomas in 1872, but Janey has just found a marriage in 1870 - whichever it is, who is the father of all those White kids in 1881 and the Pemberton kids in 1891? Including Oram.

So in 1881 the pair were married, but Hannah and kids were all named White and Thomas was a lodger. Most odd.

Never mind overloading us - is there anything else you know that might be useful?

Margaret

I don't think the Children are Horams/Orams he is too young. I searched every possbile way of spelling for a birth record, before asking for help. I thought if I could find a birth ref the easiest way to do it would just be to order the certs to find the childrens parent