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Jan,
Got there first...already checked parish records for St George, All Saints and St John also checked "Rate Books" for Brearley Street.

Searched cemetery records as well and found John Edward was buried at Witton Cemetery.
I then contacted the superintendent at Witton Cemetery, hoping I might find an inscription and she informed me he was buried in a common grave, section 188, numbered 40959, but the grave would not be marked in any way.
Good luck with your visit to the Library the walk will do you good.
Thanks again. if you do find any thing else I'll be your friend for life.

Philip, I'm planning a visit to the Central Library Brum beginning of Feb. If no more joy PM me end of January - don't mind having a look at parish registers and electoral rolls for you, all good practice! I work between Hockley and Edgbaston, could time the walk too ... yeah, right!!

Jan

Thanks Choccy,
That's why I couldn't find it I don't have access to Ancestry.

I found Thomas Lawton on the 1891 census, using GenesReunited but not in the 1901 census.
Thanks again .... see PM for email

1901 census for Thomas and Alice -

address looks to be 1 (canalside) - 4, 31 Clissold Street, Birmingham.

Its in the All Saints district of West Birmingham

Found it on Ancestry. If you PM me your email address I will sent it to you, if you can't find it.

Thomas Lawton was born in Stroud, Gloucestershire


Here he is in 1891 - living at 50 Little King Street, Birmingham. Occupation is a Metal Roller. He has same occupation in 1901.


1891 England Census
Name: Thomas Lawton
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Josiah
Mother's Name: Pamilia
Gender: Male
Where born: Stroud, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Josiah Lawton 66
Pamilia Lawton 54
Thomas Lawton 23 ************
Josiah Lawton 19




Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2390; Folio 90; Page 11; GSU roll: 6097500.

Ha ha! Know what you mean. Not too hairy though!

Jan,
Not with my short fat hairy legs!

OK, a Brummie speaks!
You have a definite place of residence as Hockley. You can walk to Edgbaston from there! Maybe 20 minutes?
Jan

Choccy,
I can't find any entry for Thomas Longton or Lawton. Where did this info come from? What address were they living at?

Thanks Jan,
I will hang on a bit.... see if any one else has more info.
The 35, Billis Street, Edgbaston, Birmingham address does not seem right...Edgbaston is the other side of Brum... and where's his Father, Thomas?... and it doesn't give me any leads. After all that it colud be right but it doesn't help find his birth cert.

And why have you dismissed this address:

35, Billis Street, Edgbaston, Birmingham

The birth for John Edward Bird Birmingham - see post previous page.

Well, you will know if it's right when you get it! Obviously the father's name and occupation wouldn't match what you have. If you specify father's name you would save £3 if it doesn't match.

I don't do this because a lot of my relatives used middle names, and their children sometimes put the wrong name on their own marriage certs. Therefore I would have not received the birth certs even though the right ones.
It's basically a gamble! But don't do this yet, wait and see if anyone comes up with anything better.

I wonder if anyone might be able to find a christening record for him?

Jan

Thanks Choccy, that looks interesting. I wonder if they appear on the 1901 census, I'll have a look.

Jan... send for which birth cert... how will I know if it's wrong?

Thomas and Alice mis-transcribed in 1901

1901 England Census
Name: Alice Longton
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: B'ham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 57
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Longton 31
Alice Longton 28
Josiah Longton 5
Thomas Longton 3
William Longton 2 months




Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2848; Folio: 118; Page: 9.

It's not my place to spend you money for you, but if all else fails you could risk getting that birth cert. If you specify father's name, and it is wrong, it would only cost £4. Personally I never do this as I always fear the name could be slightly out and then the cert doesn't arrive!
Jan

does this help ?


Marriages Jun 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

********Lawton Thomas Birmingham 6d 137
Monk Emma Birmingham 6d 137
********Norman Alice Birmingham 6d 137
Whitehouse Henry Birmingham 6d 137

I have only just begun looking at parish records - I wonder if the marriage entry might hold any more info? Probably not.
Does anyone happen to know?
Jan

Hi Brummiejan,
The witnesses on the marriage certificate are Thomas Lawton and Alice Norman.
Alice Norman is the sister to Ellen and Thomas Lawton I assume to be a friend/bestman to John.
Alice gives no lead and I've searched for Thomas Lawton hoping he might live in Brearley Street but no luck.

Philip, what about those witnesses on the marriage cert?
Jan

Hi val1963,
You're right. This is Albert. His mother is Nellie (Ellen) NORMAN not Amy. Amy was his grandmother. I have his birth certificate that show this.
Thanks for the confirmation.
Give me more..........

What about this one I know its a long shot

Address 20, Bartletts Buildings Hey Hill

Name: Albert Norman
Age: 1 3/12
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Amy
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Amy Norman 51 ---widow
Nellie Norman 22 ---could be Ellen?
John Norman 21 --brass ?
Alice Norman 18
James Norman 10
Albert Norman 1 3/12 ********could he be the grandson to Amy?


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Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2395; Folio 120; Page 3; GSU roll: 6097505.


Regards
Val

Well spotted, yes Albert Edward was born before they got married. His birth certificate shows him as a NORMAN same surname as his Mother. He must have taken the name BIRD later. Albert also took me ages to find.
Additional information: John and Ellen got married (1891) at St Georges parish, Birmingham. and the addresses they gave were 28 court Brearley Street and 32 court Brearley Street respectively... but I've looked-up these address in 1891 census and they have different occupants. I think they were trying to aviod extra church costs for possibly living in two different parishes.
I don't think he would be living at 35, Billis Street, Edgbaston, as SomersetGirl suggests.
Keep em coming!