Find Ancestors

hi ann

Thank you for your time and effort checking the baptism records.

If you can check the methodist records that would be great.

Don't know really how to progress any further.

sue :)

I had a look for a baptism for Mary Catherine Graham in Kirkham. I could not find it at either the CofE or RC church in Kirkham. Registers for Wesham (over the railway bridge) are not available. What I did not think of at the time was the Methodist church which has records in the LRO. Can try that next time if you wish. From where I think New Row - along with Old Row now demolished - was I would have expected the baptism to be in Kirkham.

I also checked the original michrofiche of the 1891 census

no 11 New row (as on the birth cert) was no relation just possible a fellow mill worker who acted as a mid-wife, no 19 New Row - Mary age 1 month & Annie Grahams - Annie age 30 described as widowed Flax Spinner unemployed from Ireland. Alice age 4 born Manchester and Pat Symth (definitely spelled like that) male boarder age 22 general labourer in employment from Ireland

If you want me to try anything else please let me know

hi ginny

Yes i looked through the 1911 census ireland - cant find them at all or the family.

Alice married a John Morgan. Their 1st child born my grandmother mary ellen in 1913.

sue :) x

I cant answer that one! The only way to know is to send for the certificate

have you looked though the 1911 census for the family, it's free

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

Who did Alice marry?

x

I used the ireland civil registration records to find a marriage of henry graham and ann bradley in 1872 belfast.

I found henry graham's details but not ann bradley. However i found a ann graham marriage details for 1872 in belfast.

The Page and Volume No are the same as are the gs numbers, image nos, and film nos.

It is their marriage? And why has anne graham not been transcribed as anne bradley her maiden name?

Ginny

Yes Im in England. My Father came to live here in the late 1950's.

sue :) x

Thanks for the details on Alice and your gran. So that's why I cant find anything in 1901 for any of them, they scooted back to Ireland

Are you in England or Ireland? Just being nosey as I was wondering when the English connection kicked back in, if indeed it did

Ginny
x

You've got me itching to go back to the Record Office now! If I can get myself sorted I will go next Friday.

The records for CofE St Michaels & The Willows RC are both in the LRO. New Row no longer exists but looking at the streets either side of New Row in the 1881 census, which do still exist, it should be one of those two churches, which is fortunate as the ones at the other end in Wesham do not have records available.

Quite hope it is RC and the records are those lovely detailed ones, maiden name godparents etc.

ginny

My Gran's (Alice Grahams daughter) details are:-

Mary Ellen Morgan

Born 1913

Marriage to Joseph Doyle (not sure date of marriage - their first born child my dad was born 1935 so must be around 1930 onwards)

Area Ligoniel, Co Antrim, Belfast, Northern Ireland (Shankhill)

Mary Ellen Died 20 June 1960.


Thanks

Sue :) x

Give us the details on your gran, everything you know such as marriage, death etc...

Ginny
x

hi

Thank you all for your help so far. Glad its numbing your brains as well as mine!

My Grandmother ( Alice Grahams daughter) was roman catholic.

Sue:)

Maureen

I'm not 100% certain about that Henry being yours. Looks good, but the name isn't exactly Flamingo Gimp or something.

Flamingo Gimp...I wish lol I had to read that a couple of times, I thought I was missing 'Flamingo' derrrrrr!



Still speculating until Ann looks at the baptism record....can’t wait Ann. Anyone would think this is my family!!

It's a coincidence (Yes I know they happen) that there is another Graham that is living with Henry when he dies at the McEvoy house but I would have thought too big a coincidence.

Maybe the older Mary Graham is a sister of Henry or even a daughter? Hard to prove caus she's born in Ireland awkward so and so.

The name Graham doesn’t sound Catholic to me....Protestant maybe?


I cant find anything in 1901 for any of them. Did they go back to Ireland?


Ginny
x

Whats the weather doing in my favourite place in the world Maureen?

I'm going to have to read and re-read this a few more times.

First off,well done,Sue for getting the certificates.
The 1891 address for Annie,Alice,etc. is 19 New Road Kirkham. (USD stands for Urban Sanitary District as opposed to RSD which is Rural,etc.)

I'm not 100% certain about that Henry being yours. Looks good,but the name isn't exactly Flamingo Gimp or something.
If it is-I wouldn't worry about 2 Mary's in the family. One could have been Mary Bridget (pick your own name) and the other Mary Cath.

I've looked for good old Pat Symth,but really........

Would the family have been RC,do you think? Does Ann have access to these as well??

Best of luck,
Maureen

hi ann

Birth Certificate details for Mary Catharine "Graham" are:-

Born: 21 January 1890, 11 New Row, Kirkham. u.s.d.?

Name: Mary Catharine

Name and surname of father: (Blank - no name on it)

Name and maiden surname of mother: Annie Graham formerly Bradley. Spinner - flax factory.

Profession of father: (Blank - no name on it)

Informant: Annie Graham - Mother, 11 new row, kirkham.

registered 3 february 1890

registration district : Fylde

sub district: Kirkham in the county of Lancaster.

Thank you for your kind offer ann. i'll look forward to receiving any further information.

Sue :)

I assume you ordered the birth certificate for the Mary Catherine b 1890 not the one in 1891 even tough she is supposedly only 1 month old in 1891. ???


edit - sorry just realised you said Mary C was born Oct 1890 which you presumably got from the certificate. I can look for a baptism for you if you like but it would be at least the end of next week.

hi ginny

this plot thickens on a daily basis.

The mary graham named living with bernard mcevoy is 14. Yet my mary was born 1890?

The census details for annie grahams - do you have an address listed?

Also this Pat symth - ( transcribed incorrect i wonder should it be smyth)?

is there any record on 1901 census of him?

sue:)

Sue

What I'd think is......

Annie and Henry split for what ever reason, maybe he didnt like the idea she was ##### Pat. so he left and went to live with friends/family who knows what relationship they were?

The term 'boarder', well that could mean anything; lover/family/visitor or just that..boarder or anything else!

You didnt have to prove anything back then.

x

hi ginny

You don't think bernard mcevoy was the father?

What does "Boarder" actually stand for?

This is getting complicated!!

sue :)

Well, looky look who we have living here then.........a Graham no less


1891 England Census
about Bernard McEvoy
Name: Bernard McEvoy
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthias
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<7 Ogden Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Greengate
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Bernard McEvoy 50
Jane McEvoy 48
Mary Graham 14 <<<<<<<<<Boarder Occ mill hand born Ireland
Mary Casey 28
Patrick Casey 3


So, you have the correct death for Henry


x

Hi Ginny

Death Certificiate Details of Henry Graham are:

when and where died: 9 october 1890, 7 ogden street, salford. w.s.d. ?

Henry Graham male aged 40 years

occupation: flax dresser

cause of death: acute bronchitis

signature of informant: bernard mcevoy present at death, 7 ogden street,salford

registered 10 october 1890

registration district salford

sub district greengate, salford

sue:)