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Thanks guys, I shall have a look

edit - I've sent Amy a message!

Maggie - as this is rather an old posting it might be a good idea if you click on the poster's name to send her a message via GR - she probably won't be looking for this posting now

Ann

I belong to the Clayton mineral water family of Pimlico london, they had branches all around the country. As a matter of interest if you prove that Elizabeth is your relative, their bottles are occasionaly for sale on ebay so you might like to own a Chorley bottle.

Going back to the Clayton family of Chorley , these are my husbands family, and I would help you If I could but I dont understand your first message , What name are you actually looking for , and who was born in 1910,

Now, I had searched for James Sr born Cork, in London in 1911. There are others

KEEFFE JAMES O 1882 29 Cardiff Glamorganshire
- obviously he is James O'Keeffe, not James O. Keeffe
KEEFE JAMES 1884 27 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
O'KEEFO JAMES 1888 23 Overseas Royal Navy
- a mistranscription since O'Keefo is not a name


aha ...

KEEFE JAMES 1910 8 MONTHS Bedwellty Monmouthshire


And now I don't know what's happening because I search for surname KEEFE in Bedwelty and get zero results ... because I was spelling Bedwellty wrong.

Okay, results are encouraging because in the list of people living with a James Keefe in Bedwelty there are two Cornelius-s. However, it seems the two James-s are not living together and there is no Elizabeth.

I think I'm going to give this one a rest for a bit!


But I did sort out the 1911 household in Bedwellty ...

KEEFE CORNELIUS O 1862 49 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
KEEFE CATHERINE 1878 33 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
KEEFE EDMUND 1892 19 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
KEEFE CORNELIUS 1896 15 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
KEEFE LORETTA 1900 11 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
KEEFE AGNES 1905 6 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
KEEFE THOMAS 1908 3 Bedwellty Monmouthshire
KEEFE JAMES 1910 8 MONTHS Bedwellty Monmouthshire


By the exact age, this one is closest to yours:

KEEFE JAMES 1910 10 MONTHS Lambeth London
living with
KEEFE JAMES 1856 55
KEEFE ISABELLA 1882 29 - wife!

Back to the mineral water family - in 1901, Robert Jr, born c1868, is still in Chorley, Lancashire, aged 33, single, mineral water maker, and living with his mother Alice.

In 1871, Robert Sr and Alice have no daughter Elizabeth.

Unless there were Robert Claytons other than Sr and Jr in that family who were mineral water manufacturers, I think you have been told a tale! Don't worry, we all have been. I'm not actually persuaded that my gr-grfather was the son of the black sheep younger brother of the 5th Viscount. ;)

Amy, the James O'Keefe I put above was 60 years old in 1911, unlikely to have a child in 1910. And there were no other O'Keefe-s living with him.

What I meant was that your James Sr does *not* seem to be in the 1911 census.

How do we know where James Jr was born?? (re your comment about moving 1910-1911)

James Cornelius __ births in 1910

Births Jun 1910 )
DAVIES James Cornelius Knighton 11b 1_1
HARRIS James Cornelius Holborn 1b 597 ???
LEAHY James Cornelius P Cardiff 11a 398

*unless* he was born in Ireland perhaps.

Some stories seem to have been told ... and they may go all the way back to the mineral water Chapman connection.

i have, no luck. Janey has found him on the 1911 census in London so they must have moved between James birth in 1910 and the 1911 census. Thats right isn't it???

Amy

The 1911 Irish census is on line and free - I think you should try looking on there for James born 1910

yes that is definatly him, i know where he is buried with my great gran,

And here the problems start. There are 6 Rosina Harris marriages in 1935, 5 in the London area, none to an O'Keefe.

Ah yes. I did say that spelling counts.

Name: James C O'Keefe
Spouse Surname: Harriss (Rosina E)
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1935
Registration district: Islington
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 824

James C - so the death record is the correct one.

Proof of life - in this case death

Name: James Cornelius O'Keefe
>> Birth Date: 27 May 1910
Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 2002
Age at death (estimated): 92
Registration district: South Cheshire
Inferred County: Cheshire
Register number: D13B
District and Subdistrict: 3411D
Entry number: 159

This is your great-grandfather's death, do you think? The birthdate is the one you gave earlier.

I had a feeling this was going to be an Irish family

James junior married Rosina Harris 3rd August 1935 in London, possibly islington. They kept their marriage a big secret for some reason

1911 census


O'KEEFE JAMES M 1851 60 Kensington London


The only James *keef* (for any name with KEEF in the middle of it) born in Cork in the 1911 census.

Whom did James Jr marry, Amy?

If we could at least find that record we might have some notion of WHERE these things were happening ...

James senior was born in Cork and came to sommers town London? Other than that I don't know where James jnr born

mmmm, yet another mystery then that I may never know the answer too. unfortunatly the great aunt I got the information from has passed away so I cant ask any more questions