Find Ancestors

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!


Thanks Quinsgran!


I'll stop looking now



sylvia

I contacted Nicola because she hadnt returned to see the results we found. She said she had found him and traced him forward.

I wish she had let us know on the thread

Quinsgran


I did, that's what sent me searching on the census image.


What I can't understand is why the ancestry transcriber used Brighthelmstone when it was Brighton on the actual page. It was Birghthelmstone on the descriptive page for the district ........... do they take this in preference to what the pages said?? (I know ...... a bit of a rhetorical question!)



Anyway, the Walter Selly I found was the same one that you found!




sylvia

Sylvia.
Did you read my comments from google about Brighthelmstone ?

Quinsgran


I cannot find any Wal* Sel* born ca 1820 +/- 2 living in Brighton on the ancestry 1841


The only one that comes up is the Brighthelmstone one


Putting in year or birth + Brighton in Location brings up "zero good matches"


Brigh* and bright* also give "zero good matches"



CORRECTION


it IS the right one ............ the heading on the top of the census page says

Borough of Brighton
Parish of Brightoys (???????)



so why did ancestry put Brighthelmstone?




I didn't look at the top of the page before!!!




and Ireland is actually written out in full, not just I in the last column



EDIT:- Brighthelmstone (Town and Parish) is written on the indicator page for District 21a, which is the one that Walter is living in ...... so Iguess that answers my question




sylvia

Sylvia.
You can also use www.1901censusonline.com which is Im sure the site GR refers you to.When you use advanced search it brings up 1841-1901 census to search.
Walter Selly on this site is the first one I had found but it didnt give place of birth. Then checking using GR I found him again and it gave place of birth unknown.


Interestingly on 1901 online I have found people on the 1901 census who are either not on Ancestry or so mistranscribed they cant be found. This might be the case with the 1841 census

PS
Just looked for Ruth Biddles you found and she comes up as living in Brighton. Obviously you have found the same one

Googling Brighthelmstone or Brithelmeston. Originally a fishing village mentioned in the Doomsday Book of 1086 that became known as Brighton at the beginning of the 19th century.

Well thats interesting to know for future searching

Quinsgran

hmmm


interesting


I was using ancestry.co.uk to try to find him!


I'll have another go, see if I can find the one you found.




sylvia

Sylvia.
I was using 1841 census on GR to find Walter Selly. I checked it again using a slightly different way and he still comes up and gives his place of birth as unknown

Closest I could come was this one, living in Brighthelmstone

1841 Census

Name: Walker Selly <<<<<<<<<<<< probably Walter on image
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Brighthelmstone
Hundred: Brighthelmstone
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: Brighthelmstone
Sub-registration district: Palace

Caroline Reed 28 Widow

Edward Bowley 25 Shoe Maker
Walker Selly 20 Tailor
Ruth Biddles 70 Widow

Address:- King Street


It actually looks as though it is two separate households in the same house, split as I have indicated




This enumerator very carefully wrote Widow in the occupation column, but they have all been crossed out ....... but sooooo helpful!!!




sylvia

Quinsgran


I can't even find him, let alone open the record!!


keeps telling me that they don't have any records

..... that's no matter whether I use

Walter Selly, b.ca 1821, living Brighton;
Walter Se*y;
Brighton;
Walter, Sussex


nada


sylvia

Sylvia.

I cant access the complete census. Who is Walter Selly living with and what is his occupation?

now why didn't I think of that?!

obviously, getting too close to my bedtime last night!



Good on ya Quinsgran


sylvia

1841 census.
Walter Selly 20
living Brighton

Nicola

I venture to suggest that the Workhouse Master might have pressured Jane Moon to give the name of the father of her child, and that she then produced a name ........ and that the name might have been the true one, or a made up one.


There would be no reason for a second registration of the birth unless Walter Selley did exist and had either married Jane or adopted his daughter. Any such adoption at that time would have been unofficial, and there would be no documents. Legal adoption did not come in until about 1927.


I have had a look for Walter Selley on ancestry ....... and can find none with a birthdate before about 1832, which would be rather young to father a child in 1841!




sylvia

Nicola

what makes you think that there should be a second registration under the Selley name?


Is this the baptism for your gt gt grandmother? It's from ancestry.co.uk

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: Frances
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1841
Christening Date: 29 Dec 1841
Christening Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Mother's Name: Jane Moon



sylvia

actually Nicola

the question to ask is when did it become NOT compulsory for the father of an illegitimate child to be present at registration for his name to be put on the birth certificate.

If the mother is or has been married, it is assumed that her husband is the father of the child ........ even if he has been dead or absent for 10 years or more! Several people on here have found that out to their chagrin and after years of searching for the father on other records.

Any other man who fathered the child has always had to be present at the registration or present an official letter saying that he agreed to having his name put on the certificate.

In the old days, this was mainly because the father of a child was under legal constraints to support mother and child .......... if the mother went to try to get Parish Relief (ie, before welfare was available), the Parish Relief officers could force a named father to take over the support.


Hence, most men did not want to be named officially.




sylvia

Nicola.
When was the birth you are talking about? Have you checked to see if its registered under both surnames?

Hi All- you have certainly given me some new avenues to explore, I am closing down for tonight got to get up in the morning, thanks for your help
good nite

Brian xxxx

Thats the next thing to do. Get his marriage cert

Walters marriage....

Name: Walter F Cage
Spouse Surname: Hampshire ( Violet )
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1947
Registration district: West Ham
Registration county (inferred): Essex
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 1811

Misty x