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Hi Janey. When i get any results i'll post them on this thread.

Let us know, because we are eternally nosey! ;)

I do hope / think we've cracked it.

Hi Janey , I've just logged on today and seen all the hard work you did last night. Firstly Annies maiden name was White and she came from Andover in Hants.It seems that you may well be correct in that Jack and Cliff's names were wrongly attributed to Brittania. Thanks to you i will send off for some of the birth and death certs to see if these are my family. Many Thanks

Hi Janey , I've just logged on today and seen all the hard work you did last night. Firstly Annies maiden name was White and she came from Andover in Hants.It seems that you may well be correct in that Jack and Cliff's names were wrongly attributed to Brittania. Thanks to you i will send off for some of the birth and death certs to see if these are my family. Many Thanks

I know, the timeline ain't easy, on top of some assumptions and false trails. I'm assuming Charles Sr's second marriage was to a considerably younger woman!

It looks to me like Clifford Green born 1913 was the son of Charles Sr. and Annie.

Clifford Green married Britannia Hearn (no apparent chlidren).
Clifford precedeased Britannia.
Britannia then remarried - at a rather advanced age herself (too old for children)
When Britannia died, the death was recorded in her second married surname, Neely.

Howzat?

No Jack seems to come into it anywhere, but that seems like a pretty iron-clad sequence of events there.

Sorry for muddying waters, my calculator was playing up, I was imagining a man born 1875 having a grandson stil alive. Of course it is possible.

So was Jack really Clifford?

There is a series of Green-Hearn births in Lincolnshire 1942-1954 that are the only possible births to the Britannia+Clifford marriage. ... But no, there was a Green+Hearn marriage in Lincolnshire in 1941 that accounts for them.

Births Dec 1913
Green Clifford C White Brentford 3a 229


So it looks like Annie White is Charles Green's Annie:


Marriages Sep 1897
> Green Charles Joseph Edmonton 3a 663
Lansdown Alfred Edmonton 3a 663
Perry Esther Edmonton 3a 663
> White Annie Alice Edmonton 3a 663


And Clifford was their son born after the 1911.

This leaves us with Charles Green being Charles JOSEPH and not Charles HENRY, but we have never heard where the Henry came from, anyhow. His *son* born c1904 was presumably Charles Henry ... or hmm, perhaps

Births Dec 1904 ??
GREEN Charles Conrad H Brentford 3a 200


The 1901 says Charles Green (Sr) was born in Chelsea.

Births Sep 1874 ?
GREEN Charles Joseph St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 402


but ... 1881 census (remember he had an older brother Clifford)

Name: Chas.C.H. Green
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England


There's no Charles C Green born in London/Middlesex 1873-1877, and no Charles Henry birth to match the London locations.

So here we have it.


Name: Britania Hearne
Spouse Surname: Greene
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1942
Registration district: Brentford
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 869


spouse: Clifford C Greene


I think the family story may have got a tad muddled in the telling.

Ordinarily I might not post an event that late, but one likes to knock something like this on the head!


I found that by searching for all Brit*s born 1900-1915, and finding three born in Brentford (the other two were both Smith), and then searching for their marriages.


Births Jun 1911
Hearn Britania Brentford 3a 123


Name: Clifford C Green
Death Registration Month/Year: 1968
Age at death (estimated): 55 = c1913
Registration district: Ealing
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 5b
Page: 37


Then, searching for a death of any Brit* born in 1911:

Name: Britannia Neely
Birth Date: 2 May 1911 = June quarter 1911
Death Registration Month/Year: Jul 1997
Age at death (estimated): 86
Registration district: Ealing
Inferred County: London
Register number: B36D
District and Subdistrict: 2261B
Entry number: 162


And searching for the marriage of a Brit* Green*:

Name: Britannia Green
Spouse Surname: Neely
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1974
Registration district: Ealing
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 12
Page Number: 0610

(Ancestry has messed something up but the spouse is Robert J Neely - born 1914, died 1979, Ealing.)


So I think those are Britannia and Clifford -- spouses, not mother and son.

Jack? No idea. Perhaps Clifford was called Jack ...

Madmeg, you are muddying the waters.

Charles Henry Green who married Annie X is

in the 1901 census with
parents George and Louisa
daughter Ellen
numerous siblings

in the 1911 census with
wife Annie
son Charles and 3 daughters


Roberta has been asked whether she has

Charles & Annie's marriage certificate
the birth certiifcate of a child of that marriage

so we can have Annie's birth surname


So far I am not seeing an answer, I'm just seeing a lot of threads where the same information has been "found" over and over, amounting to the same thing.

WHAT WAS ANNIE'S SURNAME?


The only evidence of Jack's existence is a family story about a marriage to a Britannia and a son Clifford.

No evidence of his existence or marriage, or her existence, can be found.


If Roberta would tell us Annie's surname, or do something to find out what it was, it would at least be possible to determine whether they had more children after the 1911 census.

george and louisa were his parents, i cannot find a birth or marraige cert for him. The Jack i'm looking for was Charles Henrys son from his first marraige.

Hi Janey , you are right about searching previously for Augustus and Clifford Green. They were brothers of my grandfather Charles.Thank you very much for all your help and if i'caused any problems i apologise.

So Charles Henry Green was your grandfather. Do you have his marriage certificate and/or birth certificate showing his father and mother?

Presumably he is the one with parents George and Louisa in 1901? EDIT, stupid, he is the one born 1904.

And now you have information about a Jack Green who is supposedly a brother of Charles Henry? How do you know that? Might he be a cousin or a half-sibling?

Hi . Charles Henry Green was my grandfather.This family we are looking at the1911 census was his first family. He married again later , my father was a son from his second marraige.I agree that Ellen / Nellie are perhaps the same and that the age has been transposed incorrectly.

No reply in this one from a year ago

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1123026

where it was suggested that you get a possible Ellen Green's birth certificate. Do you have the birth certificate for whichever child *is* your ancestor??

Oh, you signed yourself "michael" in that thread, so is this one yours too?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=976585

Another one where the 1901 census was "found", in 2007 ...

board search for
augustus clifford green


Jack Green
Jack Green married a lady whose first name was Br
Roberta 23/01/2010 22:56:37 24 replies

George Herbert Green and Emma Stocker
Can anyone help please. I beleive that George and
Roberta 16/01/2010 17:16:46 10 replies

Charlrs Henry Green
Charles Henry Green my grandfather died 1944 , wa
Roberta 11/01/2010 23:39:25 24 replies

Ellen Green
Ellen Green ,shown on 1901 census app 12 months ol
Roberta 03/02/2009 04:38:54 3 replies


How many times have these censuses been "found" now?

Too many threads about closely related people. For heaven's sake, you had all this information and still it took this long to get it into this thread ...

Pressie for Janey and Freewheel....

Address:
59 Framfield Road Hanwell

GREEN, Charles Head Married M 36 1875 Plasterer London Chealsea
GREEN, Annie Wife Married
16 years F 36 1875 Laundress Hampshire Andover
GREEN, Nellie Daughter F 17 1894 School London Battersea
GREEN, Ivy Daughter F 8 1903 School Middx Uxbridge
GREEN, Charles Son M 7 1904 School Middx Hanwell
GREEN, Rose Daughter F 1 1910 Middx Hanwell

This is the household in 1901 in Hanwell


George Green 53
Louisa Green 49
Clifford Green 21
Herbert Green 19
Fred Green 16
Augustus Green 14
Rose Green 8
Albert Green 7
> Charles Green 26
> Annie Green 26
> Ellen Green 18 months


It seems that Nellie/Ellen's age in 1911 has been mistranscribed.

Here's a big question.

My results at Ancestry show that I have looked at this family before -- specifically at the records for Augustus and Clifford. Was this in connection with a search of yours??

So this is the household in 1911


GREEN CHARLES 1875 36 Brentford Middlesex
GREEN ANNIE 1875 36
GREEN NELLIE 1894 17
GREEN IVY 1903 8
GREEN CHARLES 1904 7
GREEN ROSE 1910 1

as best I can tell from free "living with" searches.

You are descended from one of the girls?

You don't know anything about the son Charles?

Do you know mother Annie's birth surname? It could be that this Jack was born in 1911 or later, and knowing her surname would make it possible to find any further births to the couple.

There's a rather huge gap between Nellie and the next child. Was this a second marriage for one of the parents?

Correct , i dont have any firm evidence , it that info which i seeking to find. Charles and his wife had 4 , maybe 5. Ivy jack , Clifford and Rose were definite.