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Hi mgnv, My mum used to speak a lot about Berry Street and that area. I know Aberdeen well as I was born here. It's a shame that I did not find out more when she was alive re the places they grew up in.A lot of my relatives of old were brought up around Gallowgate,Causewayend, Hutcheon street and Commerce Street areas. Too late to ask them anything now as they are long gone. My brother who is 84 is like me at times (i'm 68) we both have senior moments, but saying that with the help you and rootgatherer and other helpers have given me in my search have jogged his memory about forgotten folk. Thanks again Emma

Hi Emma - modern Berry St meets Gallowgate from the W near the latter's S end, just E of Robert Gordon Uni.
I think my gg gran lived there in the 1870s - she did if it used to be called Berry Lane.
Chapel St is 1km to W, joining Union St near its end:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1456639

FYI - There's a map of ABD (in fact, every county) showing parishes at:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/

I've not come across Nerrlie - folk think you're lucky to have an unusual name to follow,
but I think it's more of a guarantee that it'll be mistranscribed. If you search censuses on Ancestry, I'ld try and avoid using the surname, or if pushed, use Ner* first.

I wonder if your mob has any connection to the following:

OLD DEER
Names and dates on Stone Number 78:
Margery GRAY 2 Mar 1811
John DAVIDSON 7 Jan 1821
Mary FRASER 17 Feb 1860
James DAVIDSON 18 Jun 1872
Jane DAVIDSON 13 Jun 1906

http://www.abdnet.co.uk/mi-index/

I don't know if there was a law setting min ages for witnesses in SCT back then - there isn't in ENG. However, there is a law now setting the min age for marr. witnesses at 16 in SCT.

rootgatherer, Alexender Gray b7/4/1817 father Alexander Gray mother Ann Murray baptized one witness a John Will. Looked up Ann's birth and found her father John Murray and mother Anne Will possible could be her brother?
My mother was Alexandra Victoria Nerrlie she was married to William Stewart Gray whose father was George Lyon Gray, her father Alexander Nerrlie b1868 married an Ann Donald. His father Alexander Nerrlie b1832
Agra India he married Helen Lamb, thats as far as I've gotten. In 1881 census they are listed as Norly, St Nicholas Aberdeen. In 1891 census he is listed as being born America. Hope I have explained it so you can understand. Emma

Good Morning Emma

As you can marry at 16 in Scotland then I am sure at 16 you can be a witness at a marriage (I think it is the same today, my nephew was his brother's best man a couple of years ago but as he was only 15 he couldn't sign the register but if his brother had married a couple of months later he could have). The addresses being similar make it look good too.

Is there a connection between the name Nerries and that William Morries on the 1861 census - maybe a mistranscription? Where does Nerries come into your familyplease? Is it on the Gray side?

I would be inclined to follow that 1901 Lyon family back a wee bit to see if there is a connection with the Grays. I know it can be quite costly f you are using Scotlandspeople for all your research and I don't know where you live but the best and cheapest way to do it is a visit to the Scotlandspeople centre in Edinburgh as it only costs £10 for a day and you have access to all that is on Scotlandspeople. You can also view more recent records that have to be ordered as certificates when working online.

Rootgatherer/mgnv Williamina Lyon would have been 16 in 1905 when George Lyon Gray and Mary Jane Morrison married. Would she have been old enough to be a witness? Her address was was 13 Berry Street and Mary's was 15 Berry Street. Emma

good morning rootgatherer and mgnv, Am going to lookat all the info you have given me and see what I come up with in scotlandspeople. Over the moon that we have found her at last. 1901 she was in the Gallowgate but Williams address at her death was Chapel Street. Can I also ask you both if you have come across the name of Nerrlie in your searches?
Thank you again. Emma

Emma - back to your 19:49 question.
Yes, I think it's the righy one. Hopefully, the address on the d.rego is Gallowgate, tying it back to the 1901 census, and maybe that's what's on your George's m.rego - although he could have moved after his mum died.

EDIT Just noticed RG has already said this.

1901 Census - I wonder if this was the Williamina, witness at GEorge's wedding? Some familiar names in this family? Alexander, Ann and Marjory.

Name: Williamina Lyon
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Female
Where born: Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 168/1
Registration district: St Nicholas
Civil parish: Aberdeen St Georges in The West
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 13 Berry St
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 48
Household schedule number: 81
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1901_53
Household Members: Name Age
William Lyon 31
Isabella Lyon 34
Williamina Lyon 12
Isabella Lyon 10
Elizabeth Lyon 8
Ann Lyon 6
Alexander Lyon 3
Majory Lyon 1

Source Citation: Parish: Aberdeen St Georges in The West; ED: 48; Page: 15; Line: 12; Roll CSSCT1901_53; Year: 1901.

Hi, Emma - I don't know how familiar you are with the history of the area, but until just after the 1891 census,
there was a sizeable chunk of Banff stuck in the middle of Aberdeen (there were also some small bits, too) - basically,
the county boundaries were a real snafu. The bit of interest for us is the parish of St Fergus, and bits of the neighbouring parishes.
For Old Deer, this included the Hythies and Fetterangus.

FreeCEN took the (sensible) decision to lie about the county so searches were easier, but record the lie in a non-searchable note.
(St Fergus was said to be in BAN, and all the other bits in ABD). [One of my dad's uncles was born in Nether Hythie BAN.]


Piece: SCT1841/228 Place: Old Deer -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Old Deer Ban Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 1 Page: 4
Address: Upper Hythies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
GRAY Alexander M 50 Crofter Aberdeenshire(Originally: Banffshire)
GRAY Ann F 52 Aberdeenshire(Originally: Banffshire)
GRAY John M 25 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire(Originally: Banffshire)
GRAY Jannet F 17 Aberdeenshire(Originally: Banffshire)
GRAY Isabella F 15 Aberdeenshire(Originally: Banffshire)
GRAY Ann F 10 Aberdeenshire(Originally: Banffshire)
GRAY Peter M 5 Aberdeenshire(Originally: Banffshire)



Piece: SCT1851/232 Place: Peterhead -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 3c
Civil Parish: Peterhead-Parish Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 178 Page: 4 Schedule: 9
Address: Cowsrive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
GIBB John Head M M 49 Farmer 113 Acres Emp 4 Labs Aberdeenshire - Tarves
GIBB Elizabeth Wife M F 30 Farmers Wife Aberdeenshire - Longside
GIBB John Son - M 9 Scholar Aberdeenshire - Peterhead
GIBB William Son - M 7 Aberdeenshire - Peterhead
GIBB Helen Daur - F 2 Aberdeenshire - Peterhead
GIBB Mary Sister U F 41 Dressmaker Aberdeenshire - Tarves
BIRNIE John Servnt U M 20 Farm Servant Aberdeenshire - Lonmay
MITCHELL William Servnt U M 19 Farm Servant Aberdeenshire - Peterhead
BLACK George Servnt U M 45 Farm Servant Aberdeenshire - Glass
BURNET William Servnt U M 16 Farm Servant Aberdeenshire - Longside
GRAY May Servnt U F 21 House Servant Aberdeenshire - Old Deer
KENNY Agnes Servnt U F 22 House Servant Aberdeenshire - Fyvie

[ http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NK0944 ]

Results for: All Countries
Father: Alexander Gray, Mother: Ann Murray
Exact Spelling: Off

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 9
Select records to download - (50 maximum)

1. JOHN GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 APR 1815 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

2. JANET GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 22 MAY 1823 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

3. MARY GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 10 DEC 1810 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

4. WILLIAM GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 MAY 1821 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

5. REBECCA GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 22 MAY 1819 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

6. ALEXANDER GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 07 APR 1817 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

7. ALEXANDER GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 17 APR 1817 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

8. PETER GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 08 AUG 1836 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

9. ELIZABETH GRAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 MAR 1813 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland


Alexander's record (No. 6 above) is the only extracted record the others are all submitted records. So I am wondering if there are more on Scotlandspeople.

The marriage is also submitted.

ALEX. GRAY Pedigree
Male Family

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ANN MURRAY Family
Marriage: 13 JUN 1812 Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland

Emma

I think that looks quite plausible for Mary's death. That 1861 census with a Mary living with her mother Ann (and William) seems to be the same Mary. I had checked back to the 1851 census and Ann's husband is alive but in 1841 there is no Mary / Marjory with them. A check on the IGI for their children didn't reveal a Mary or Marjory either but they may not have had all their children christened.

What was Mary's address at the time of her death - does it tie in with the 1901 census. Also does William's address tie in with your William's address in 1901 please?

Interesting too that your George had the middle name Lyon and one of the witnesses to his marriage was Williamina Lyon - have you found the family connection there yet?

Hi Aileen,
Have tried the variants of Nerrlie and am as stumped as you.
Thank you very much for your time and effort and if you do happen to come across another Nerrlie please get in touch and I will do the same
to let you know. Emma

Hi Emma,
I'm beginning to think that Alexander made up the name Nerrlie, I cannot find any reference to it other than in Aberdeenshire.......either that or he changed the spelling from something sounding similar

rootgatherer/mgnv Have I found the right one?
1902 deaths a May Gray age 72 father Alexander
Gray mother Ann Gray m.s.Murray informant
William Gray son. Emma

rootgatherer and mgnv, Have gone into Scotlandspeople for her death
but can find nothing. Any idea where I can go now? Emma

rootgatherer and mgnv, Wow my head is spinning I can't believe how
much info and pointing me in the right direction you have given me. I
found on William Morrice and John Alexander Paternity of child by
decree of court etc. Where do I look for these records? My g/father
George Lyon Gray was her 3rd son so all fits in. He was a blacksmith.
William died 1939 married Margaret Kirkton (can't find cert.) Daughter
Emily McKay was a witness, his occupation was baker. Can find anything
MD on John but will keep looking.
Will look into all new info you have given me,looks as if you have both
cracked it. Thank you so very much. Emma

Ann in 1851?? Mary may have left home by then?

Name: Ann Gray
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1791
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name: Alexr
Gender: Female
Where born: Old Deer, Banff
Parish Number: 228
Civil parish: Old Deer
County: Banffshire
Address: Upper Hythie
ED: 1
Page: 5 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 20
Line: 11
Roll: CSSCT1851_49
Household Members: Name Age
Alexr Gray 60 b. Rathen, Aberdeenshire, Farmer
Ann Gray 60
John Gray 35 Son, Farm Serv.
Janet Gray 27 Daughter, House Serv.
Ann Gray 19 Daughter, House Serv.
Peter Gray 14 Son, Scholar
William Gray 9 Grandson, b. Mithlie, Abdn
John Burnett 2 Grandson, b. Old Deer
Ann Gray 2 Mo Granddaughter, b, Edenburgh


Source Citation: Parish: Old Deer; ED: 1; Page: 10; Line: 5; Roll 774; Year: 1851.

Maybe worth delving into this family?? Wondering if William Morries, aged 2 months is the same William (Gray) with Mary on the 1871 cesus - age could be correct.

1861

Name: Marjory Gray
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Relationship: Daughter
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Old Deer, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 228
Registration district: Old Deer
Civil parish: Old Deer
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Upper Hythie
Occupation: Domestic Servant
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 68
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1861_31
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Gray 70
Marjory Gray 31
John Burnet 12 Grandson
William Morries 2 Mo Grandson

Source Citation: Parish: Old Deer; ED: 4; Page: 14; Line: 2; Roll CSSCT1861_31; Year: 1861.

1901

Name: Marjory Gray
Age: 72
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Old Deer, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 168/1
Registration district: St Nicholas
Civil parish: Aberdeen Greyfriars
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 156 Gallowgate
Occupation: Housekeeper
ED: 30
Household schedule number: 39
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1901_52
Household Members: Name Age
Marjory Gray 72
John Gray 35 Stone Cutter
George Gray 32 Blacksmith
Eliza Findlay 30

Source Citation: Parish: Aberdeen Greyfriars; ED: 30; Page: 7; Line: 1; Roll CSSCT1901_52; Year: 1901.



So it looks like Mary / Marjory died between 1901 and 1905. That should make finding her death easier - I just hope the informant knew her parents' names!!!!