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I think we can take it that we worked hard for nothing!

MM, you can only do so much and we have done soooo much it would be nice if Lorna would acknowledge

I'm out of here until she does

Ginny
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Well, I'm posting this in case Lorna doesn't return.

She is researching this for a friend who is descended from a brother of Frederick Hurcombe. His grandfather told him that Frederick was the father of Danny Hurcombe, the rugby player.

He might be, he might not be, but from what we have all found there is no evidence to confirm it.

I suspect Lorna doesn't want to go any further with this.

Ginny, I think the one in Parkhurst is in London in 1881, but I can't find him anywhere else with certainty. Nice try, but I can't see any way he's connected. Likely also the Price and Bowen you highlighted.

Interesting re Mary Ann Bowen.

Cmon, Lorna, we'd like your comments.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm





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Births Mar 1854 (>99%)
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Bowen Mary Ann Newport M 11a 169

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Births Mar 1857 (>99%)
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Bowen Mary Ann Newport M 11a 161

Found it, but dont really know why I'm even looking at it! Grasping at straws


1891 England Census
about Henry Hurcombe
Name: Henry Hurcombe
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Convict (Prisoner)
Gender: Male
Where born: Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Carisbrooke
Ecclesiastical parish: Carisbrooke
Town: Parkhurst
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Isle Of Wight
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: Her Majestys Prison
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Wood 58
John McCarthy 38
William Thomas 68
Henry Simmonite 70
John Beaumont 85
Henry Gilden 27
Charles Gilbert 32
William Furber 68
Thomas Smith 35
John McCarthy 29
George Collyer 40
Joseph Wildsmith 38
George Duff 50
Thomas Kay 26
Thomas Collinson 37
Rosa Jarvis 25
Matthew Bine 52
George Frederick Gayner 47
Daniel Thomas Ryan 22
John Davis Hames 63
John Hutchinson 51
Francis Hyam 68
George Brooks 44
Charles Price 24 ??????????????????????b London!
Henry Alken 30
Thomas Marriott 34
Edward Cain 54
James Ratchford 26
Walter Howard 22
Frederick Billings 23
Thomas Horn 40
William Laurence 45
Lewis Rawlings 32
William Collis 41
Jesse Kingscote 32
Henry Hurcombe 30 ?????????????????????
Henry Beadle 68
James Betts 37
Thomas Bull 55
Edward Heavyside 44
George Reno 33
John George Ray 42
Charles Hanson 52
Thomas Bentley 68
Thomas Barnes 45
John Williams 63
John Shaw 39
William Henley 47
Walter Evans 43
James Theodore Paget 38
William Smith 67
John Vaughan 36
George Stannard 29
George Ingham 61
Charles Holdsworth 39
James Beaufort 44
John Clark 56
John Scotto 70
James Thomas Barraclough 66
James Price 33
Joseph Savage 68
Sydney Scott 33
James Green 66
John Reeve 32
George William Poulton 27
George Gurney 48
John Henny 67
John Myers 40
William Morris 61
George Frederick Simmonds 33
George Dix 22
John Bruce 63
John Thompson 56
Henry Norris 63
Frederick William John Owens 34
George Roland 32
Isaac Katz 63
James Mellor 60
James Clifford 56
George Caddick 40
Joseph Ivonfield 41
James Shephard 58
Benjamin Blackmore 41
Richard Fox 50
Thomas Metcalfe 43
Willia Wall 41
Samuel Shaw 40
John Lambert 37
Samuel Wilkinson 34
Edwin Markham 52
George Bowden 22 <<<<<<<<Bowen????????? b Liverpool
Frederick Harris 46
John Adams 72
Samuel Smith 52
Philip Cattermole 63
Frederick Saunders 58
William Jones 45
Rudolph Werner 57
John Sharpe 52
Richard Pritchard 51


There is a Newport connection in the family. I doubt very much that the others here have any connection at all but I'm leaving Henry here until we get to the bottom of this!

Hi MM

I missed the marriage you posted last night. Lorna, you HAVE to get the birth and marriage certificate........it's driving us 'nuts'!!!!


I did find a male 'Hurcomb' on the census, in prison but I cant remember which census I found it on!


Ginny
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I've sent Lorna a pm to ask her to come back and look at the thread.

4 Hurcombe children born Wigan, mmn Dickinson.

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Daniel Hurcombe
Name: Daniel Hurcombe
Spouse Surname: Dickinson
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1931
Registration district: Wigan
Registration county (inferred): Lancashire
Volume Number: 8c
Page Number: 67
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Spouse Nancy Dickinson.

Might be useful to see who he names as his father.

http://www.wiganwarriorscommunityfoundation.com/SquadMember.asp?teamid=5&id=154

From the website:

Danny Hurcombe, who could play half-back or centre, was one of the earliest signings made by Wigan after the First World War, arriving in November 1919 from Talywain Rugby Union Club.

EDIT BY ME - Talywain Rubgy Club is in Pontypool.

Seems likely this is the Danny (Hurcombe/O'Herne) we have been chasing on this thread.

Lorna feels his father was Frederick Hurcombe of Uley, Gloucestershire. Son of Azariah Hurcombe. I have accounted for this Fred from birth in 1852-3 to 1911, apart from in 1871 when he may have been a boarder (doubtful it is him) in Glamorgan, supposedly born Chepstow. He marries Elizabeth Lee and they have only one child Frederick William. There is nothing to suggest he was the father of Danny Hurcombe/O'Herne - but nothing that says he wasn't. He was a dockyard rigger, so may have travelled to Wales at times for work.

Thanks for the info Eileen. I picked a death of Danny in Wigan in 1965 cos that's where his first club was, it may or may not be him. I'll leave it to Lorna to make any contact via telephone.

I wish I could find how Hercombes are connected to the Allen/O'Herne/Bowen/Price/Morgan families.

Yep, I think you're right MM about getting the birth cert of Daniel, no doubt it will give us more to contend with!

Ginny
x

Hi is this an unusuable surname? If so try the Wigan Lancashire telephone directory, as I know of a family by the same surname who lived close by about 10 years ago. Its a long shot but worth a try. regards Eileen

I'm even slower, cos of course we still don't know where the name Hurcombe comes from.

I'm a bit slow today, I'll have to recap.

Mary Ann somebody bc 1860 had several children up to 1891, when she is a widow, youngest child Kate/Catherine 4 months. In 1901, she is still a widow but has acquired a son John in 1894, possibly the child of Michael O'Hearn who is living next door (mistranscribed as Hearn - I've notified Ancestry), and whom she marries in 1903. In 1911, the said children John Bowen and Kate are with her and Michael, described as his step-children, but there are 2 more step-children Dann Hercombe age 16 and James Hercombe age 13.

In 1901, Daniel Hurcombe and James H(enry) Hurcombe are living with their uncle and aunt, John Allen and Julia (nee or previously married to a O'Hern). But we discover they are not Hercombes at all but O'Hernes. There is another Hercombe nephew with the family, Edward age 8, but I haven't found a birth for him in any surname. There is also George Price, nephew, age 16. The only George Price I've found is son of William and Susan in 1891.

I doesn't seem likely that Daniel and James are in fact step-children of Michael O'Hearn or his wife Mary Ann, but nephews.

1871 Wales Census
about Julia O Herne
Name: Julia O Herne
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Michael
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Trevethin, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil parish: Trevethin
Ecclesiastical parish: Abersychan
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Pontypool
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 36
Household Members: Name Age
Michael O Herne 45
Margaret O Herne 44
Johannah O Herne 15
Michael O Herne 12
Julia O Herne 7
Hannah Walli 19 (dau)
Catherine Walli 1 (g-dau)

All except Julia and Catherine born Ireland, so likely not on 1861 census.

There are other O'Hearns in Pontypool who could be the parents of Daniel and James.

So the only way to solve the mystery of whose children they are, in particular Daniel, is to get the birth certificate(s).

Nice find MM of the 1911....what a mix up this is!!

Leading on from your last 1901 census post, this looks like Mary Ann. Thank god Catherine (Kate) had the good grace to be born before the 1891!


1891 Wales Census
about Mary Ann Bowen
Name: Mary Ann Bowen
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Trevethin
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Abersychan
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Pontypool
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Ann Bowen 35 <Widow
Geo Bowen 15
Amy Bowen 10
Sarah J Bowen 8
William Bowen 6
Margt L Bowen 3
Catherine Bowen 4/12


And living right next door to Mary Ann is

Margaret O'Hearn 63 (mom)
Michael 30 (son)<<<<<Mary Ann's husband to be I wonder?

Hmmmmmm

x

1901 Wales Census
about Kate Bowen
Name: Kate Bowen
Age in 1901: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Female
Where born: Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Abersychan
Ecclesiastical parish: Abersychan St Thomas
Town: Abersychan
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Pontypool
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 62
Household Members: Name Age
Mary A Bowen 47 Wid
Kate Bowen 10
John Bowen 7

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Michael O'Hearn
Name: Michael O'Hearn
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Pontypool
County: Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 304 (click to see others on page)

Spouse Mary Ann Bowen

Am I up the creek do you think?

No sign of Edward Hurcomb/O'Herne age 8 in 1901.

This is an interesting one from 1911:

O HEARN, Michael Head M M 49 1862 Waggoner Hay Dealer Abernychan Mon VIEW
O HEARN, Marrey Wife M
3 years F 50 1861 Abernychan Mon VIEW
HERCOMBE, Dann Stepson S M 16 1895 Coal Miner Hewer Asst Abernychan Mon VIEW
BOWER, Dann John Stepson S M 17 1894 Coal Miner Hewer Asst Abernychan Mon VIEW
HERCOMBE, James Stepson M 13 1898 Coal Miner Hewer Asst Abernychan Mon VIEW
BOWER, Kate Stepdaughter S F 20 1891 Abernychan Mon VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
31913 Reference:
RG14PN31913 RG78PN1836 RD586 SD2 ED18 SN353

Registration District:
Pontypool Sub District:
Pontypool EnumerationDistrict:
18 Parish:
Abersychan

Address:
Fifteen Houses County:
Monmouthshire

Births Sep 1898 (>99%)
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O'HEARN James Henry Pontypool 11a 167



And this birth may be a match for the 1901 census 'James'

I think your best move is to get the birth certificate for Daniel....Minnie posted it for you

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