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Rose,

Yes you're right, 1891. The info was a copy/paste from the member email that researched all this and while we corrected that error in later emails I forgot to change it in the copy/paste version :)

Sue

Hi Sue,

Thanks for the update.

You mentioned Edith is at Alton House in 1901 but it's actually 1891. Have you found her in 1901?

Alton House is now a hotel.

An Edith Smith married Albert Parris. They are in Farnham in 1911 but she is 32 so I'm not sure she's your Edith.

Rose

So...here we go, the latest, all found through parish records etc., by a wonderful person who has a common interest in my tree and shares my information:

It all starts with Thomas Smith, baptised on 21 Mar 1839 in Selborne, Hampshire, the illegitimate son of Sarah Smith, baptised 10 Jan 1819 in Selborne. Thomas was married as Smith, to Maria Andrews on 23 Nov 1861 in Selborne. Now this is where the intrigue comes in, they had 6 children all baptised in Selborne, and starting with:

Ann baptised as Smith on 6 Feb 1862.
Ellen baptised as Smith on 3 Apr 1864,
Louisa baptised as Chiverton on 2 Sep 1866.
James baptised as Smith on 7 Feb 1869.
Thomas baptised as Chiverton on 3 Sep 1871.
Edith baptised as Smith on 1 Dec 1872.

It appears that they changed their surnames at random, as you will notice later.

After their father Thomas died in 1873, and was buried on 2 Nov 1873, as Thomas Smith (called Chiverton), his wife Maria then married Henry Beagley on 11 Dec 1880 in Selborne, they had a son Charles Beagley baptised in Selborne on 2 Dec 1883. Now in the 1881 census, we find Henry and Maria Beagley together with James Smith and Edith Smith given as son and daughter, the address, Shop Alton. In the 1891 census we find the family Henry and Maria Beagley together with James Chiverton Beagley and Charles Beagley as sons. As you will notice above this James was baptised as Smith. Notice also their address is now Turk street Alton, and is the same address given by Edith, when she gave birth to William Harold Chiverton in 1894. I had checked the whole of Turk street for all residents, there was not anyone else who could have been of relevance, so I feel certain she was living with the Beagley's at that time, Maria being her mother.

It appears that the whole family couldn't be sure of their identity, or changed their names at random, or to suit the occasion, which was probably what Edith had done. Edith was a servant at Alton House 142 Normandy Street in the 1901 census aged 19. The census unfortunately will not tell us where she went in 1897, but she returned to Alton in 1907 when she married as Smith, to either Earwaker or Parris, but would need the marriage certificate to verify which one. I have since searched the 1911 census under both names but cannot find any trace of them, so must do more research to try to find them.

There you have it - the conclusion. I am a Chiverton (or a Smith depending on who's tree you are looking at).

Again, I want to thank you for all your help! Best Sue

I think we have ruled out Alice Chiverton (earlier posts in this thread). But just got this info from another member so wanted to post it so no-one else continues looking for her:

Well, i have just found a little more on Alice Matilda, and just another case of name reversal. I knew that Alice was married in 1903 to probably an Andrews, but I couldn't find her in the 1911 census as Alice Andrews, until in absolute desperation I tried looking under "Matilda Andrews" and bingo I then found the family living in Cosham, and they included;
Albert Andrews Head 30 Cosham
Matilda " Wife 34 Selborne
Dorothy " Dau 7 Cosham
Thomas Chiverton Nephew 14 Selborne
so we now know that Alice Matilda had a daughter Dorothy, and her son was living with them as a "nephew", but unfortunately no second initials.

Meg, I copied/pasted your post - see answers next to question.

*Harold William Chiverton/Chipperton born 29 Jun 1894, to Edith, unmarried. YES

*He went into a children's home and was "adopted" by George and Mary A Wiltshire, Mary A being the sister of one of the staff of the home.
NOT QUITE. He was adopted at birth by G & M Wiltshire. Marys SISTER Louisa (Ham) Tubb was a witness that signed the Gordons Boys school application in 1907/08 - this application noted G&M as guardians.

*Edith paid some money for the first 3 years (so was not a pauper), but then ceased to do so. YES

*In 1901 he is living with the Wiltshires. YES (as Chiverton)

*There is a Florence Wiltshire b 1879 who married William Spencer in Farnham, Surrey, presumably an adoptive sister. YES

*In 1911 he is a gardener with an unrelated family. YES (as Chipperton)

*He marries Alice Teresa Foss in 1918. YES

*He died in 1978. YES

*Is that all okay? Do I need to know anything more? I think you have it all now! I guess the one other thing is the mother ceased paying the Wiltshires after 3 years around the time she left town (according to letters) . The letters were part of the school application by a Reverend. Letters dated 1907/08 stated the mother had returned to Alton? but had no contact with the boy.

*So we are now looking for Edith Chiverton/Chipperton born at a guess around 1874. Is that right? YES. EDITH CHIVERTON is listed as mother on William Harold Chiverton's birth cert. its the only info I have on her. Father is not listed.

Sue

Rose. Yes - informant is mother at Turk Street, Alton

Sorry, I am sure I was involved in the Chipperton investigations cos I have pages and pages of notes about it, but I think there was more than one thread, and I think, Sue, we discussed it.

So can I get it together please:

Harold William Chiverton/Chipperton born 29 Jun 1894, to Edith, unmarried. He went into a children's home and was "adopted" by George and Mary A Wiltshire, Mary A being the sister of one of the staff of the home. Edith paid some money for the first 3 years (so was not a pauper), but then ceased to do so.

In 1901 he is living with the Wiltshires.

There is a Florence Wiltshire b 1879 who married William Spencer in Farnham, Surrey, presumably an adoptive sister.

In 1911 he is a gardener with an unrelated family.

He marries Alice Teresa Foss in Dec qtr 1918.

He died in 1978.

Is that all okay? Do I need to know anythng more?

So we are now looking for Edith Chiverton/Chipperton born at a guess around 1874. Is that right?

I mean the informant on the birth cert? Most times it's the mother but it could be someone else.

Rose

...are you referring to how I got the info about her leaving town/paying the Wiltshires? Not sure I follow?

Was the informant the mother or someone else?

Rose

Baptismal records lists

father - dead
mother - domestic service
guardians - George & Mary Wiltshire
witness - Rev. Humphrey Davies & Louisa Tubb (Louisa is Mary Wiltshire sister)

I wonder if she lied about her first name.

His baptismal record might just list the Wiltshires and not her name.

Rose

So a quick update on time line ASSUMING this birth certificate I have for William Harold Chiverton is my grandfather (which seems pretty likely):

Born: 29 June 1894, Turk St, Alton
Baptized at Congregational Church Alton: date?
Adpoted/Fostered by George and Mary Wiltshire: 1894, Alton
Mother lives in Alton and pays money to Wiltshires for boy until: abt 1897
Mother leaves Alton: abt 1897
1901 census: boy (as Chiverton) still living with Wiltshires/Newbury St, Alton
Gordon Boys School application states mother has returned to area (Alton?), but no interest in boy/boys name has now changed to Chipperton: Application date 1907/08

Rose,

No house number.

I can't find an Edith in Alton, either. Was thinking maybe she was visiting or her first name is different?

I'll go look at Kate.

Exciting!

No luck with Edith right now but there is a Kate Chiverton at 15 Turk Street in 1901.

Is there a house number?

Rose

The moment we have all been waiting for and quite interesting!!

Birth cert for William Harold Chiverton born 29th June 1894 at Turk Street, Alton, Hampshire.

No father listed.

Mother: Edith Chiverton - waitress
Residence: Turk Street, Alton

I THINK this must be him - my grandfathers birthday was 29th June! Although we had though 1892 or 1893?

As we speak I am doing searches for Edith in Alton - nothing yet.

Looks like it! He has his mother's surname, though both sons could have the same father.

...and, I was told by a member with an extensive Chiverton tree, that Thomas was illegitimate.

A trend?

If Alice Matilda is the mother, she is back with her parents in the 1901 census in Alton and would appear to have another son, Thomas, born 1896. She is Matilda on the census.

With the mother missing since he was 3 years old it's possible they just forgot his exact surname, especially if they couldn't read or write.

Rose