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I asked another GRU if she had birth certificate for sister Elizabeth (married to Joseph Taylor on her tree) and she replied as follows

"I don't have the marriage certificate, but I did look at the marriage entry at Manchester Cathedral. This states that Elizabeth Horrocks' father was John Horrocks, a carter. Her baptism on 23 Apr 1848 states her father has John Horrocks, spinner, mother sarah. Hope this helps. Eileen"

Does this help us?

This looks like your guys in the water-damaged 1851:

http://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/intro.htm

District: Salford, Greengate
Enumeration Page for Book: 3F Transcript Page: 9
>>>
Line Street Surname Forename(s)
1 HORROCKS John
2 HORROCKS Sarah
3 HORROCKS William
4 HORROCKS Sarah
5 HORROCKS Martha
6 HORROCKS Mary Hannah
7 HORROCKS Elizabeth

8 1 Preston Street DEAN William

Maybe someone with an FMP sub can fill in the missing ages, pobs, occups?

I have been re-examining the census data - Alice usually has a 9 in her age indicating birthdate 1851/2

In 1911 - 59, a weaver - bording with sons James and Robert (my grandad) in house of Edward Smith and Elizabeth her daughter

In 1901 - 49. married but living alone. Kids ( Frederick 20, Elizabeth 18, Joseph 16, James 14, and Robert 12) with Dad James

In 1891 - 39 Her and Robert 1 living with sister Elizabeth

In 1881 - 32?? living with James and his dad Joseph

In 1871 - 19 living with brother William

In 1861 - 10 with Maria Harding and her sisters

The 1841 census for John and sarah Harrick (Hoorocks ) isnt the same family.

There were two John and sarah's.

John Horrocks and sarah Brice married 18/11/1821 and had children christened at Manchester Cathedrel,as dod another John and sarah presumebley John and Sarah nee Croft.

The one missing is Mary Hannah 1846 which doesn't seem to be there,that would have been a great help as there only seems to be one born in Salford.
Alice no middle name was christened by John and sarah 26/5/1851.

Maryb

That's a lot of info you have all provided - some I had butthere is a lot I didn't. So I am even less certain than before.

Obviously I need to buy certificates but which ones - do I start with the marriage of James Taylor and Alice? in that way I learn her father and age and take it from there.

Flick, Catherine, Rootgather and Mary what is your advise?

Hello, sorry for the delay I've been out. Just give me time to take in all you have found. But I don't have all the certificates suggested. I only have my grandfather Robert showing father James Taylor and mother Alice Horrocks. I have got most of my info looking at census and finding as you all have the various sisters living with others and their spouses. And yes I was originally influenced by other trees but as I get more experienced I am trying to confirm hence this thread

Mary H Horrocks sister to Alice and Elizabeth.

Mary Hannah 1846 Salford J/F/M 20 931.
1871 she was a domestic servant with brother William 1837 and his wife Esther 1839 born says Yorkshire.

Mary hannah born @ 1847 died Salford J/F/M 1885 8d 58.

Maryb

This looks to be the John and Sarah in 1841:-

Name: John Harrick
[John Horrocks]
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
Hundred: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: looks like (Wootham Street)

Occupation: Painter

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Chorlton upon Medlock
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Harrick 40
Sarah Harrick 40
Thomas Harrick 13
Betty Harrick 14
Henry Harrick 6
Cathrine Harrick 10
Jae Harrick 15
Francis 1

FRANCIS HORROCKS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 26 JAN 1840 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Father: JOHN HORROCKS
Mother: SARAH


same family in 1851:-
Name: John Horrocks
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1800
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Painter

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 1ll
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 172
Household Members:
Name Age
John Horrocks 51
Sarah Horrocks 51
France Horrocks 10
Henry Horrocks 20

The Alice with mum Sarah on 1861 census who maybe Sarah nee Croft in 1871 Sarah age 72 is with Joseph Long born Liverpool 1830
Sarah long 1843 nee Horrocks !!!
Alice S Horrocks born 1849 cotton worker,so that Alice had a middle name.
Address Guardian Street Greengate district 36 image 32.

1861 Sarah and Alice plus family were at 19,Fleet Street greengate d23 image 34.

Maryb

This would be the marriage for John to Sarah Croft:-

JOHN HORROCKS
Male

Marriages:
Spouse: SARAH CROFT
Marriage: 25 MAY 1828 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

Harold, you seem to have the marriage cert. for John and Maria so could you give us some more info on John, please.
His profession, his date of birth, what was his address at the time of the marriage?

I made that mistake when I first started and ended up doing a whole branch of the family over again.
I always buy the certs now to be absolutely sure. Gets expensive but it's worth it especially when you have several possibilities.

That's ok Catherine - I'll leave mine on so your post doesn't look silly.

We could do with Harold coming back!

I think this would be easily solved by buying either a marriage certificate or better still buying the birth certificate to confirm both parents names - no shortcuts using anyone else's research.

Sorry rootgather, just added the birth onto my other posting to keep things together. Wasn't trying to cheat.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1846 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HORROCKS Mary Hannah Salford 20 931

Possible death for Maria which would explain Alice and Mary living with their brother in 1871?

Deaths Dec 1864 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Horrocks Maria Salford 8d 39

Do you have Alices exact date of birth?

This looks to be the christening for the Alice with parents John and Sarah:-

ALICE HORROCKS
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 28 MAY 1851 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England


Parents:
Father: JOHN HORROCKS
Mother: SARAH

so if she was born after this date, then her mother was not Sarah.


Mary H. Horrocks seems to be a constant so here's her birth:-
Births Mar 1846 (>99%)
HORROCKS Mary Hannah Salford 20 931

That looks hopeful, Catherine! That 1871 census I posted also has a sister Mary living with William and his wife - and the ages fit with your 1861 census.

This one has sister Elizabeth, so is this the one you think is yours?
1861
Name: Alice Horrocks
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Female
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Simon
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 55 Bridgewater Street

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Greengate
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
Maria Horrocks 54 born: Potterne, Staffordshire - Widow
Martha Horrocks 19
Mary A Horrocks 15
Elizabeth Horrocks 13
Alice Horrocks 10
Maria Walker 2

Snap, Flick!