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Fresh eyes, new ideas, gratefully received.
Shropshire apparently covers many counties so i'm unsure which PRO office i should go to... I'm even starting to wonder if he wasnt born/they werent married in England??

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Hi KD

I live in OZ so I have to go to bed,I will have another look tomorrow.

It is always good to walk away for a while ,lets your brain cool down.

Why do we do it to ourselves ???
Sue

Also I cants find Thomas in 61? So he may have died young too. Not that that helps really lol

yes thats the marriage which i have cert for, taken from details on williams birth cert: Father Thomas mother Ann salt in 1845.

sorry if i'm waffling, trying to get it straight in my own head!

We're assuming Thomas' mother was Elizabeth as when William lived with sister Maria in 51 with Aunt Ann Gould/Gold in Kingswinford, in 61 they were joined by Elizabeth aged 74 widow, stated as Mother in Law to head of house (elijah) therefore Ann's mother, who as williams aunt ,must be thomas's sister.
And we know thomas's father was James from Marriage cert.

I did find a 41 census for an Elizabeth (Widow) living with an Ann and John
but i dismissed it, again because of the ages.
Elizabeth 50
Ann 15
John 10

the Ann and John we've found where christened 22 and 21, tho of course who knows when actually born?

If correct Elizabeth with John in 51 then they were 68 and 24 and Ann Gould/gold was 29?

Do i need to just accept i may not find a baptism record for Thomas??

Nothing i can find fits around kingswinford or stourbridge. although i except people moved, But its curious to me, as i cant pinpoint the MArriage of JAmes and Elizabeth either

Nothing jumps out and says EUreka thats the one if fits with this and this...

I do aprreciate you doing this, its all so confusing!!
Lets start again!
I have williams birth cert and \thomas Marriage so i'm pretty def about those.
William born 45. Thomas married Ann in 40. in Kingswinford.
Father James
I know that William hadf sister maria and had an Aunt Ann Therfore Thomas had sister Ann. Found baptism for Ann in 22 mother Elizabeth.
Elizabeth, Ann, William and MAria all lived together at some pont.

I found a Thomas and Ann on 41 census HO 107/996/11 in Kingswinford
Thomas aged 20 Ann 25, Maria 2 and MAry 2 mths.
In 51 it apears Ann (salt) died and Thomas remarried Mary.


I think James may have dies youg as Elizabeth appears as A widow?

Kd
I only posted that census to see if you recognised anything,we can delete that bapts as you say he def married an Ann.

I have searched all the sites I know and cannot come up with a bapts for Thomas that Year,I do have Ancestry Heritage Plus so I can usualy find it if it si there.
Maybe he was not bapts at all and you have the correct people your self.

Are you certain his parents were James and Elizabeth.I am quite willing to continue searching.
We really need to see some kind of census with the family on ,Mother Elizabeth, Father James Ann, John and Thomas.
Sue

My head Hurts!!
In 41 he was married to Ann?

Thank you for helping Susan x

The dates/ages are the biggest stumbling block.
Some of the names fit. Mary and Thomas. Never heard of others?
But this thomas is married to an Elizabeth??

maria also lived with Aunt Ann, I presume because Ann salt died

william was born in 45

Yes thats the sister Ann. And I beleive elizabeth was living with the brother John on 51 cenus.

ON 41 census I can find a Thomas 20. Ann 25. Maria and Mary in Kingswinford which fits

However in 51 I can only find a thomas aged 30 in Kingswinford is now married to a woman called Mary with Mary, Ann And Elizabeth and stepchildren transcribed as Kilbery.
A Mary Kilby maried Thomas Parish in stourbridge in 49 And I think Ann (salt) dies in 47.

William lived with his aunt Ann Gold/Gould in 51/61. This is how i know thomas had a sister Ann

Marriage cert:
2 March 1840. Thomas Parish of full age Bachelor. Brickmaker. of Brockmoor, Kingswinford. Father: James Parish, Brickmaker

Ann Salt of full age Spinster of Brockmoor Father Richard salt Cordwainer?

Is this Anns family after marriage ,looks like her mother is living with them.
1861 England Census
about Ann Gold
Name: Ann Gold
[Ann Parish]
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Elizah <<<Elijah in the image
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Kingswinford, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Kingswinford
Ecclesiastical parish: Pensnett
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Stourbridge
Sub-registration district: Kingswinford
Elizah Gold 39 <<<Elijah
Ann Gold 39
Thos Gold 13
Jane Gold 5
Eliza Gold 1
Elizabeth Parish 74 <<mother in law _Widow
William Parish 14 <<<nephew
Eastha Gold 9