Find Ancestors

Thanks Susan.
Another Frederick Smith tree that connects, but still no further information...still elusive!

Hilary, he doesn't come up when I search. Can you give us the batch number?

Ozi

Wendy
It is not in your best interests to start a new thread as info in your old thread may be used as a reference point.


http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1216662

For instance this would be relevant in confirming the marriage.

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0


ALFRED RIGBY SMITH Pedigree
Male
Event(s):
Birth: 18 JUN 1827

Christening: 18 JUN 1843 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London, England

Parents:
Father: FREDERICK SMITH Family
Mother: ELIZABETH
No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C046984


I had already started looking for the marriages for you but had not realised you had started a new thread.

Hi Ozi & Wendy, I found his baptism on Family search but not on IGI's. I have a thread on Tips Board, Looking in Norfolk for Ancestors, if you follow the info on there, all the Norfolk images are on Family Search in the pilot records. Frederic Smith was baptised Frederic Leake, assuming Leake was a middle name. He was illegitimate. Mother Susannah Smith.
Hilary.

Kira, I watched that thread for quite a while with no further responses. This thread is for Frederick Smith alone, not a group of people, so I thought it a better chance of replies and results starting his own thread, and I wanted to make a point of not needing descendants, rather his ancestors and siblings. I searched the trying to find Smith section, but those who did bother to post a name and dob didn't match. But thankyou for the advice, it was something I considered when starting this one.

Your'e a darling Hilary......this could well be the important breakthrough not only I, but others with him in the tree need.
FREDERIC LEAKE SMITH. Wow, gives his dob, and baptism date, plus mother's name, and the fact he was baptised in private.
But guess what, now you have me curious to find his father!!! LOL Leake sounds too surnamish to be a middle name...Off we go investigating again.

After thinking about the baptism we found, I have come to the conclusion that Leake must be the father's surname. Frederic had never used the letter L as his middle name in any census' and the 2 possible death records also don't have him as Frederic Leake.
I know it is a slim hope, but I do believe Susannah knew his father, and used his surname when baptising him. If we can find her records, and establish where she was born and lived and age, perhaps it was a local boy from the same area. It is going to be hard, but maybe not impossible.

I need some help here.
Using the hunch that his father was possibly surnamed Leake, I went through FreeBMD and searched the parish registry for any person named Leake anywhere in Norfolk. I then isolated all of the males surnamed Leake born between 1740 and 1785, (what I would presume to be eligible ages for fatherhood).
There are quite a few suitable candidates, but SAMUEL LEAKE 1779 caught my eye ... born and baptised in East Dereham.
My mum gave me another suggestion, and that was the many base babies born to servants of the time. Perhaps Susannah was a servant to a Leake family.
Of course this may be totally incorrect, but I think a strong direction to look at.
I would appreciate your thoughts and any information.

Hi Wendy, another thought has crossed my mind. Leake could be Susannah's mother's maiden name. Maiden names were often used as middle names. Best to try to find Susannah's baptism if possible.
Hilary. x

Hi Wendy, Look at baptisms East Dereham,in Record Search Pilot, image no 167 of 295, page 212. Then look on Family Search for marriage of parents. You can double check that on parish records.
Hilary. x

Good idea Hilary.
Strange things is, Frederic lists his place of birth as correct, but has dropped the Leake from his name. Perhaps he didn't know what he was baptised?
Because he lists father unknown on his marriage records, this could mean either Susannah did not marry/marry again, remarried and told Frederic it wasn't his father, or maybe Frederic was even adopted out, as he ended up in Middlesex.
You know, base doesn't just mean illegitimate, it also means lowly or below social standings...another possibility is that Susannah, as you say, was Susannah Leake, married a Smith, and he either died, was not good enough for the family, ran away, or she had an affair etc.
I just love a good mystery

Bartholomew Smith married Mary Trollop, East Dereham 1779.
Susannah born 1 June 1781.
Looks like a likely match.
But no Leake name there. So if these are the correct parents for the correct Susannah, then we eliminate the possibility she married a Leake, or her mother was a Leake.
Comes back again to the father being a Leake.
As her parents married in East Dereham, and Frederic was born in East Dereham, then very likely Samuel Leake from East Dereham becomes our prime suspect as the father. He was also born 1781.

Bartholmew christened 8 Sept 1751 St Edmund Norfolk.
Parents John and Susanna.

"IF" Sussanah's parents were Bartholomew and Mary, then she had 4 siblings that I have found in the baptism index for East Dereham.
Sussanah is listed as Susan., which i am assuming is abbreviated with the full stop after her name.
Sister Ann was baptised 1780 but named SMYTH, parents Bart. & Mary.
Mary 1784 Bart. & Mary Trollop
John 1787 Ditto
John 1797 Ditto & Mary Trollop
Both John's same month, but instead of dittoing the parent's names, as with John1, Mary's name rewritten.

Just found that John1 died young, as did Mary.

By chance, I searched for a Susannah Smith in Middlesex, and came up with 1861 census, Susannah Smith 83, married to Robert Smith...32 Ely St., both born in Norfolk. In 1851 census, Frederick was listed at 2 Ely Place.
Can anyone confirm for me if these are the same places, or totally different.
I have tried to search on FreeBMD, which give neighbours, but none of these census are showing up for me.
It may be a possibility that Susannah moved to the area with Frederick, or followed there later.

Reading the enumerators' descriptions, Ely Street is near Pearson Street, Haggerston and Ely Place is near Digby Street, Bethnal Green. These two other streets are on modern maps and are about 1.5 miles apart.

I think you would be fishing.

Ozi

Thanks Ozi.
Yes, was working on a hunch.
I am lost trying to find the 'correct' Susannah, and was hoping there would be some sign of her near her son in Middlesex.
The years between 1800-1841are blank so far.
Apart from the baptism record in 1800, I don't find Frederick until in the 1841 census at Ely Place.
I am hoping there is a Susannah in the area who is listed as visitor, or unexplained family member.
I did find a Susannah Smith, independant, and living alone in Ashford St, Shoreditch...1841 census. The age would be about correct.
In relation to Ely Place, how far away would this be approximately?

Have come up with a very possible twist to the search, using data from Frederick's marriage certificate, (information sent to me). One of the witness' was a Sarah Smith.
As there are no Smith's on Elizabeth Brees' side of the family, we must assume it is a relation to Frederick.
I have searched all over for a Sarah Smith, and I would like someone to help me please concentrate on one of the candidates.
Sarah Smith
B 26 Feb 1799
St Leonard's, Shoreditch.
Mother Susannah
No father's name given.

This may be the link I need, and instead of working on Norfolk to London, perhaps Susannah came from London in the first place, and went back to Norfolk to work or such, gave birth to Frederick, then went back to London.

The record I found on IGI doesn't state if it was a base child or not, and FreeReg has no records for the birth either.

Thanks in advance for any help.