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No, Pauline, I didn't think you meant that. Despite these villages/small towns being very close, the villagers considered them to be definitely quite distinct back then - and still do.

The councillor passed my query on to a Turner person, but he hasn't got back to me yet. I wouldn't be so persistent if I didn't think I had seen Spring Villas or (when I worked at Hayfield bank in the 1960s) we had a customer who lived there. Reading through again, I realise the spot where I think Spring Villas is is at the bottom of Moorland Road (Elija Hall lived there) and very close to Trentham Villa. Looks like I could spend a nice afternoon wandering around Birch Vale with my camera.

Oh, and I've just realised that the Woodward family that Tracey found in Disley Road, Newtown contains a Fred, who would just be the right age to be the Fred who had a baker's shop in Whaley Bridge when I was a teenager, and whose son my husband has just met via an "retired persons" group - he might know something about Disley Road - cos nobody else does, other than it appears on the census records.

Sorry folks, ignore all this if it bores you stiff!

Hi Pauline,

Not a good idea to give your personal email address on the main thread. It can open the way to all sorts of abuse. So delete it. But I have zapped it, and will send you a private email.

Think there's just you & I, Margaret! Hope you didn't read my last comment, .."does this make any difference?" as; "Who cares, anyway?" It was a suggestion, trying to help.
Good of you to email the councillor, you're a thorough & persistent lady! Which Turner did you contact, I wonder?? Maybe a link in my extended chain?

It has been so interesting reading the info about yourself & the locals,& thanks again so much for your efforts to put some substance to the skeleton info I have. Sorry, that's not too funny but it's true!

Best wishes

Pauline

Hi! Back online!!

I wish I could 'summon up' the dead but there is nobody left to ask.My brother & I are the last in the line, so to speak... He's not likely to know.
Why don't we satisfy our curiosity & ask questions before the older generation passes on??! And I don't want to drive you crazy!! If Spring Villas was in Birch Vale, rather than Hayfield does this make any difference? I don't know the area, unfortunately.

Can you dad and aunty describe the house or where abouts it was? I know the area so well. And am prepared to tramp around to find Spring Villas.

A local councillor has told me that Hayfield and Disley were connected in the 1800s, and the Hayfield Workhouse, which I know was at New Mills took people from Disley. His only recollection is of Springfield Terrace, but he has passed my query to a Turner person who was born and bred in Hayfield.

There seems to have been a lot of overlap between the three areas back then. Disley and Hayfield were apparently connected through the Rivers Goyt and Sett, and bridges were built with joint public money. Though as the Goyt ran through Whaley Bridge, and the Sett through Hayfield, Birch Vale, and New Mills (where they joined), I cannot see where Disley got involved at all. The Goyt continues to Stockport where it joins the Mersey.

I wonder if the canal came into this equation. No canal in Hayfield, but from Newtown to Disley still exists.

Maybe I am on a personal trail here. Ignore me!

Sorry, Margaret, if this is somewhat shorter than what I've just written & lost when I pressed 'preview'.. Oh, well!! You are trying so hard for me, thanks a million. Dad & Aunty visited Spring Villas as children, spoke of the maid appearing with a bell to call them in at a mealtime.Posh stuff!

Do you think the name, S. Villas has changed?
Shall be away tomorrow & not able to get on a computer for a few days, but will be in touch asap. Best wishes in the hunt, but don't worry if you don't turn anything up!

Dad's Army Arthur Lowe is Hayfield's main claim to fame. The local cricket club named their club house after him (he bought the ground for them!).
He was well known in the village when I used to work for the bank there - originally County Bank, then District Bank (when I commenced in 1968) and then Nat West. Now a doctors' surgery. The Lowes all banked there. Pat Phoenix - Elsie Tanner of Coronation Street - lived there at some point and "went out" with my widowed uncle for a while.

Somebody else on here has been investigating Wright Turner recently. I am hopeless at finding such threads. I put him into Search Trees and somebody called Clive has him born 1810. Might be worth contacting him.

I am desperate to find Spring Villas. I have it in my mind that they are a pair of VERY BIG semis, raised up, cellar, attics etc. I just can't find them and my estate agent friend has not come back to me.

Have emailed a Hayfield councillor to see if he can help. Maybe I have a bee in my bonnet but it is annoying me that I don't know my own area.

There was a Graham Hadfield and his wife Jill who had a brilliant site called Jigrah with loads of stuff about Derbyshire. I know he sold it out to someone - I was hoping DEREK (are you there?) would know who, cos I bet it would have lots of stuff for you.

Best wishes

Margaret

Margaret

Thanks for trying, MM. It was so interesting reading the 1912 directory for Hayfield,etc. Spring Villas is listed under Hayfield, I noticed.[Disley Road!] Otherwise I don't know.. Unsure about Wright Turner, although he could be in the tree somewhere. However, just before his name in this directory there are refs. to windows in the Hayfield Parish Church commemorating Elijah & Levi Hall & a Mrs Hall. of Moorlands [died 1879]. She was Elijah's wife, & they were Great Grandparents of my Father, Leonard Turner. Didn't know any of this; it is sooo significant!! Think Levi was a cousin of Elijah. I have some info on the Halls stretching back in the area to 1600, but as you realise I'm trying to search out the Turner line.

- interesting snippet about the Dad's Army Aurthur Lowe!!

Pauline, I can't for the life of me find Spring Villas. I know they exist. Do you have a location? I've asked my friendly local estate agent, but no joy yet.

Do you have a Wright Turner amongst your relatives? Mentioned here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dusk/1912_kelly_hayfield.html

Spring Villas is also mentioned (Birch Vale) and the postmaster Arthur Howard Lowe was likely a relative of Arthur Lowe of Dad's Army fame.

Interestingly (to me) the parishes comprised Hayfield, Mellor and Newtown.

Forgot to add, Eva [born 1886] & her sister Jane were probably born in Maloney [ Normandy?] north France & the first time Eva turns up is in the 1911 census. Don't have the birth details, hmm!
I'm happy with my Great Grandfather John Turner [ Spring Villas] parents being William & Ann.
Derek, are you able to give some more details re. the Turners in Hayfield in that 1841 census you mentioned, how interesting! I wouldn't know we had a butcher upline. Guess the family roots were at Spring Villa, wonder when the house was built?

Have no problem with Spring Villa, Disley Road being in Birch Vale/ Hayfield, all I know that's where the Turner home was & I'm sure the house still stands?? But thanks for all the thoughts, guess Disley road becomes a 'passing wonder' by 1901, Derek, & had morphed into ......??!!

MM If you have a photo of Spring Villa,that would be so interesting...... if its still there!!

Wish I was more skilled, today don't seem to turn anything up. Grandfather Fritz Turner married Eva Ardern in June 1910 in Hayfield Church where I guess many, many family events had already taken place, including Martha's burial [nee Hall] , Fritz's Mother in Feb 1910.Eva lived at Trentham villa Birch Vale before her wedding.Who was her Mother?

Oh Crikey, I remeber the Dendys, Elizabeth, no, the vicar had no records. And it is such a tiny graveyard.

EDIT - I walked round it. No Dendys.

Thanks to you all for putting some 'flesh on the bones' in this research, so to speak. [ I know it's a terrible pun...]
Have family around tomorrow, Labour day holiday here, but will have a good think through all your contributions on Tuesday; MM; Derek, Wayne/ Tracey, Elizabeth, Janey et al & get back to you shortly. You make this probing into the past such fun!

Pauline - I'd like to give credit here to Madmeg for the searches she did for me in Hayfield -she picked up a request of mine to Derek, but his records didn't go back to 1450 which was the date I had! but she actually got in touch with the vicar for me and searched a medieval graveyard for my Dendys - no luck and they all moved on elsewhere in the next generations but I was glad to have such handson search!

It was ME who wanted to know where Disley Road, Hayfield was, I was going to offer Pauline some photos of the road/houses. Derek, the 1891 census mentions the Grouse Inn. There are two Grouse Inns but one is in Glossop (on the Hayfield side), the other in Birch Vale. I can only assume, therefore, that the road out of Hayfield towards Birch Vale was then called Disley Road. There were very few houses on that stretch back then - a small row of terraced cottages, two pubs and three or four larger houses.

However, I was thrown with Disley Road being at Newtown, which is definitely New Mills, not Hayfield.

Let it be, unless Pauline would like me to investigate further.

Good morning all.......why are we all so keen to prove that Disley Road didn't exist.or is a colloquialism????? I have see the local Hayfield Census for 1891.and there are two properties on Disley Road before we get to The Grouse Inn, who's official address was "Disley Road Phoside Hayfield"..then there are the Gormans. Halls.Jepsons Thorns Stephens and catlins all on Disley Road..then it changes to Disley Road Birch Vale with a dozen or so families.then it becomes Birch Vie, Disley Road, Birch Vale........

I looked at the original Census Documents on Ancestry for 1891 looking at the names of the families above, as a sdample, and there they all are neatlry and precisely laid out..In Disley Road.
1891 was a very different Census to say 1841,when records were often hearsay..and names of streets were not mentioned.

By 1891things were different


Having said all that Disley Road appears to have been taken over by its constituent parts by 1901

Derek

MM

The 1911 that had Disley Road mentioned, was only mentioned by the homeowner himself on the front of the census paper.... the actual address was correct on the inside of the census form.

This does lead me to believe is was a coloquialism rather than an actual road name.



T x

I will look a bit more into this Disley Road - it is likely the enumerator "made it up" but I am quite sure it was not in the village of Hayfield. However, I've noticed a number of addressed at Newtown, New Mills (Buxton Road - which I guess could have been thought of as Disley Road) but appear on the Hayfield census district. That said, I also recall that Hayfield Workhouse was physically in New Mills - so there is summat odd about New Mills back then, maybe classed as hayfield.

More research needed, I will do it.

Mad meg on holiday.