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Never Say Die :-)





Please could someone do a lookup on the 1891/ 1901/ 1911 Census for the following person:

SMITH John Henry R - Free BMD has birth Mar Q 1886 Newport M Vol 11a Page 238. Am hoping by following him through the Census record he will be the person (John Henry Reardon SMITH) who married Mabel Caroline PUGH in 1907.

According to older family members the surname may be REARDON-SMITH and he was called Harry by most of his family and friends. There is also a story told by older family members that he was a sea captain and that Mabel supposedly drowned when she accompanied him on one of his voyages...all yet to be confirmed.

Mabel Caroline PUGH was born Jun Q 1887, parents were James Alfred and Edith PUGH nee PHELPS.

Any help would be really apprecaitd :-)

1901 ?? the image is John Henry Smith
Name: John Iteny Smith
Age in 1901: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation: Apprentice
Gender: Male
Where born: Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Vessels
Town: At Sea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: Chulmleigh

can't find in 1911

1891 census

Name John Smith
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1886
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Address 13, Bude Street
District Bideford, Northam
Parish Northam
Administrative County Devonshire
Birth Place Newport
Birth County Monmouthshire
in house
bessie head married 34
maud r 9
harriet 8
mary E R 6
john H R 5
elizabeth mitchell neice 13
RG 12 / 1787

This looks like his mother in 1901 census
1901 census

Address Grange Farm
Civil Parish Bideford
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet
Ecclesiastical Parish Bideford St Mary
Parliamentary Borough or Division Barnstaple
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Bideford
Administrative County Devon
Householder 1
Name Cyril R Johns
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 13
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation School
Employment Status
Where Born Devon Bideford
Language
Infirmity
Householder 2
Name Geraldine E M Johns
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 10
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation School
Employment Status
Where Born Devon Bideford
Language
Infirmity
Householder 3
Name Gwendoline L G Johns
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 3
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Devon Bideford
Language
Infirmity
Householder 4
Name Mary Ann Johns
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 43
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation Lodger House Keeper
Employment Status
Where Born Kinley Musdoc Leicester
Language
Infirmity
Householder 5
Name Richard Johns
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 65
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Labourer General
Employment Status
Where Born Cornwall Kilkhampton
Language
Infirmity
Householder 6
Name Wilfred Gill Johns
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 8
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation School
Employment Status
Where Born Devon Bideford
Language
Infirmity
Householder 7
Name Alexander J Smith
Relation to Head of Family Grandson
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 6
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation School
Employment Status
Where Born Devon Bideford
Language
Infirmity
Householder 8
Name Bessie Smith
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 35
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Devon Bideford
Language
Infirmity

Thanks so much RulandBelle & PollyPocket :-)

I was sooooo hoping to find John & Rosamond in the 1911 Census but this is great.

Any chance their names could have been transcribed/spelt incorrectly or perhaps they moved to a different parish?

Tracy who is Rosamund?

Sorry for the confusion I caused RutlandBelle...I was working on info I received for Rosamond PUGH on another thread when I wrote that note to you and PollyPocket......it should read" John & Mabel"

OK Tracey, just thought I'd missed something.
is this family anything to do with you?? Note child's name

1911 census transcription details for: 52 Claude Road

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN32082 RG78PN1845 RD588 SD2 ED15 SN152


Reg. District: Cardiff Sub District: East Cardiff
Parish: Cardiff Enum. District: 15

Address: 52 Claude Road
County: Glamorganshire


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMITH, Willie Head Married M 23 1888 Clerk Appledore Devon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMITH, William Reardon Son M 0 1911 Cardiff Glam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMITH, Elizabeth Ann Wife Married F 24 1887 Cardiff Glam

Thanks RutlandBelle

Sorry for late reply, with the time difference I've only just checked my email.....Lucky I checked my email before going to work :-)

The family you listed isn't in my family tree but am wondering if Willie may be related to John Henry Reardon SMITH. It's sidetracking from my PUGH branch but would you mind doing a 1901/1891 Census search for Willie SMITH please? It may help find John and Mabel :-). And also a marriage lookup for Willie & Elizabeth Ann to see what her maiden name is? I can do this when I get home though as I know how busy you are.

Couldn't wait until i got home from work:-

I found this marriage on Free BMD which is probably Willie & Elizabeth Ann SMITH:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MARSHALL Margaret Irene Cardiff 11a 691
SMITH Willie Cardiff 11a 691
WAKELY Elizabeth Ann Cardiff 11a 691
WORTH Frederick Charles Cardiff 11a 691

HELP PLEASE!!

As John Henry R Smith's mother Bessie was with her family by the name of JOHNS when the 1901 Census was taken I did a marriage search on FreeBMD to find th ename of her spouse and the only Bessie JOHNS from the district of Bideford, Devon to get married was:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cann Ellen Bideford 5b 941
JOHNS Bessie Bideford 5b 941
MOUNTJOY George Henry Bideford 5b 941

But as you can see there is no spouse listed for her. Is there another free search engine I could try or could someone please do a lookup in the Archives or Find My Past? Also John Henry R's siblings Maud, Harriet and Mary are no longer living with their mother, would you please be able to do a lookup on the 1901 Wales Census please? :-)

sorry


just realised I had duplicated information

No worries :-)

Do you think I should start a new thread with what I still would like to know or leave this here?...it seems to be getting awfully long for someone to read and decipher.

Tracy, I wouldn't start a new thread it would just confuse everyone.
If I get it right you are trying to prove that John Henry Reardon Smith married Mabel Caroline Pugh. I have been unable to find them in 1911 so they could have been at sea if your family story is correct.

There are quite a few John Henry Smiths born in Wales c 1886 but only the one in Devon with the initial John H R Smith

Thanks for your reply Rutland Belle.

Yes! I'm trying to verify their marriage in the 1911 Census before ordering their Marriage Certificate which proves costly from NZ.

I also thought I would try and find his father but judging by Census record posted on this thread earlier it would appear that John Henry's mother, Bessie, and her youngest child are living with her parents as she is listed as daughter to head of house so am assuming John's father has either died or away somewhere. I also thought I might try and find his other other siblings in the census after they left home but after spending 1-2 hours last night following Jonesey's "Searching The 1911 Census" for them plus Edgar JAMES which I'd posted another thread for so I don't bombard you helpers here at GR I drew a blank....I must be as thick as a brick lol as I ended up with at least a page of names and could't work out how to distinguish who was actually in the same household as the person I'd entered in the original seach. I'm going to try again later when I get home from work..."Never Say Die" :-)

Thinking that by joining Ancestry I would gain access to the 1911 Census I paid for a month's subscription only to be very disappointed BUT then I started to look around and receiving a tip from someone with regards a photo of Rosamond PUGH I discovered a huge family tree for the PUGH clan with a story of how John Henry R Smith, his wife Mabel and their two young sons, Harry & Jack, went on a sea trip. Mabel became very ill and was transferred onto a Royal Mail Ship with passage paid back to Wales but on the journey home she died. Two years later he ended up marrying Mabel's younger sister ELSIE, not Rosamond as the family rumours had said so I'm so glad I followed this through before placing info on my tree.

I'm now faced with the mystery of how to locate John Henry R Smith's father's name but as the marriage record I found below has no spouse listed for his mother Bessie Smith nee JOHNS, I'm not sure where to look.....can someone please point me in the right direction, is there searchable archives online or something similar perhaps?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cann Ellen Bideford 5b 941
JOHNS Bessie Bideford 5b 941
MOUNTJOY George Henry Bideford 5b 941
______________________________________________

Tracy it would appear that one male name has not been transcribed yet (it is all done by volunteers)

If you have a sub to Ancestry you will have to look at the actual images for Dec Q 1885 -letter S- go forward till you get to Smith (there will be a lot!) and then you will need to look for a marriage reg in Bideford on page 941 to see if you can get a match
It is possible, I have done it but fortunately with a less common name

Jennifer

Awesome...Will give it a try :-)

Just noticed that Willie Smith was born in Appledore, Devon. If you find that there is a link to the family then the Genuki Northam website has BMD's transcribed for Appledore and Northam.

It was a godsend for me as my grandfather's family all came from Appledore and there is a massive amount of information.

EDIT

Quick check shows the following baptism

Wille Smith baptised 15th June 1887 to William Randon (Reardon??) Smith, mariner and Ellen in Appledore Parish Church

There is also a family of Reardons with baptisms in 1858 - parents Thomas, master mariner and Elizabeth and then Mary. Perhaps the Smith has been added on at a later date????

One of those children is William Reardon and another is John Henry Reardon (????possibility for father of your John Henry Reardon Smith)

Here is the 1901 for the family found in 1911 by RutlandBelle

1901 Wales Census
about Willie Smith
Name: Willie Smith
Age in 1901: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Wm Rocardon (original looks like Reardon)
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Appledore, Devon, England

Civil parish: Roath
Ecclesiastical parish: Roath St Margaret
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: East Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 202
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Rocardon Smith 44
Ellen Smith 42
Willie Smith 13
Douglas Smith 6
Lilian Smith 15
Gertrude Smith 11
Lizzie Smith 8
Grace Smith 3
Jno Smith 46


Both William and his brother John (the last name on the list) are Master Mariners - both born in Appledore.

BMD's for Appledore generally come under the Bideford registration district.

Hope this makes sense to you!!!!