Find Ancestors

If the baptism is right father James then i just put 1901 for possible info job might fit groom/horse keeper!! and don't think he lived too far away from her family

good morning ,cant see where you are coming from on the 1901 census groom! cant see it on the one i have for burgesee family 1901 12 alvey mews

1881 image says blind from birth
Name: Lizzie Burgess
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: M.
Gender: Female
Where born: St Georges, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Southwark St George Martyr
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 26 Sturgis St
Household Members:
Name Age
John Burgess 42
M. Burgess 40
Mary Ann Burgess 16
Emily Burgess 15
John Burgess 13
Harriett Burgess 11
Lizzie Burgess 8
Charles Burgess 5
Thomas Burgess 2
Sarah Burgess

1901???????????????? this ones a groom
Name: James C Burgess
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Hendon, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Hendon
Ecclesiastical parish: Hendon St Mary
Town: Golders Green
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Different Patricia
BURGESS, John Head Married M 73 1838 Horse Cab Driver Etchingham Sussex
BURGESS, Sarah Wife Married 54 years 13 children born, 8 still living F 69 1842 London Southwark
BURGESS, Eliza Daughter Single F 39 1872 London Southwark
BURGESS, James Grandson Single M 11 1900 School London Walworth
BURGESS, William Grandson Single M 1 1910 London Camberwell
RG number: RG14 Piece: 1834 Reference: RG14PN1834 RG78PN65 RD23 SD5 ED16 SN177
Registration District: Southwark Sub District: Newington South Enumeration District: 16 Parish: St Mary Newington Address: 12 Alvey Mews Walworth County: London
So John is still working at 73 after 54 years of marriage, no retirement at 65 then, and Sarah just(?)16 when married, so teenage marriages can work out.
(The 'blind' column is cut out for now)

Perhaps someone with a sub for the 1911 census would be kind enough to have a look at the following for Patricia .... I can see that young James is with her but it is diffcult for me to see who else is with her

HOUSEHOLD BURGESS ELIZA F 1872 39 Southwark London

Looking at the image of the 1901 census that jansmith has given above it states that Eliza was blind from birth and that she was single.....perhaps they then just invented a husband for her son James' baptism?

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeon's I've found this baptism

Name: James Burgess
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 23 Jun 1899
Born: 8 Jun 1899
Father's Name: James Burgess occ Horse Keeper
Mother's Name: Eliza Burgess (it states 'blind mother' alongside the entry)
Address: 186 East Street
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Walworth
Borough: Southwark
County: Middlesex

yes thats o.k when i read it i thought it was wrong phew.......

Different Patricia:
On the 1901 census it does not say on the actual census form that Caroline is James' Mother - it just has his name immediately under her name and so an assumption has been made that she is his mother. (My copy is faint so I might have missed something, but that is what it looks like)
Does that make sense?
Thank-you

how did you get james burgess 1899 mother caroline on his birth certificate it says mother eliza burgess

1901 then is about all you will get i think
Name: Eliza Burgess
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Southwark, London, England
Civil parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England



Name: James Burgess
Age: 1 9 months
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation: Grandson
Mother's Name: Caroline
Gender: Male
Where born: Newington, London, England
Civil parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London

Household Members:
Name Age
John Burgess 63
Sarah Ann Burgess 59
Eliza Burgess 28
Thomas Burgess 19
Caroline Burgess 20
James Burgess 1 9 months

So is this the birth cert you have?

Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
Burgess James White St. Saviour 1d 152

You said there is no father given so I presume you are just guessing that the father could be James White. If it is the case then you will also have no idea how old he would be and will not be able to prove anything.

Christine

the birth certificate i have james white born 8 june 1899.mother is eliza burgess,father is left blank,adress 22 east street all this is corect,i am looking for the father of this child possibly james white living in sturgiss street(sturge)southwark possibly born around 1873,quite a hard ask but someone might be able to help?

Whose birth certificate do you have?

Christine

hi

are you saying James whites mother is called Lizize (elizabeth)then as I dont think you have mentioned this before and the one I found had Mary Jane as mother so must be wrong one

Is Lizzie's surname White or something please

Ann

o.k. thanks i need to look closely at these james whites as i said before all i have is a birth certificate and a fathers name entry blank,but am thinking did she(lizzie ) give him the names james white as a ruse for fathers name?she went on to have another child 1908 called him william john fathers name was added as( william john)well this is her fathers name.james was born east street southwark,they had mooved from sturgis st,where james white lived?some cover up here i think

the 1871 census Jansmith hs found is the same James whose birth I have found as his father is a cane worker on the census living 288 Kent street

1881 cant read street name but had another child a daughter Mary age 7

Ann

1871 this one then?
Name: James White
Age: 1 year, 8 months
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark
Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Trinity Newington




Name: James White
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch
Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England



Name: Mary White
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: James
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Trinity Newington

Hi

have found this on London parish registers on ancestry

James White born 15/8/1869 bap 5/9/1869
Parish St Saviour, southwark
father James White and mother Mary Jane
lived St George the Martyr Southwark
Father was a Cane worker

any good

Ann