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Hello,

I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to attempt to help me solve my little mystery!

I have a William Stephens supposedly born c. 1829 in Crinow near Narberth, Pembrokeshire.

I have him here in 1861 working as a servant at the address he gives on his marriage certificate a year later;

1861 Wales Census about William Stephens
Name: William Stephens
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Loughor
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: (Looks like) Trafle Mills
Occupation: (specific type I can't make out) Servant
Registration district: Llanelly
Sub-registration district: Loughor
Household Members:
Henry Griffiths 30
Sarah Griffiths 27
William Griffiths 3
Phillip Griffiths 1
William Stephens 38
Ann Davies 31

He then got married in October 1862 in Loughor to Susannah John. He gave his father's name as Thomas Stephens, a Labourer. His age only gives 'Full age'.
Witnesses were Mary Morris and David Phillips.

I can't find them in 1871, but I do have them in 1881, still in Loughor.

Here he is again in 1891 with his wife and children. This is the first time he gave his place of birth specifically as Crinow.

1891 Wales Census about William Stephens
Name: William Stephens
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Susannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Crinow, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil parish: Loughor
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Gowerton
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: Mill Street
Employment status: Employed
Occupation: Collier
Registration district: Llanelly
Sub-registration district: Loughor
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household Members:
William Stephens 62
Susannah Stephens 52
Elizabeth Stephens 21
Margaret Stephens 19
Thomas Stephens 15
Matilda J Stephens 7 >> My great grandmother

I can't find him anywhere before 1861! I've tried looking at the family he's working for to see if he was working for them there but no luck.

I've tried looking at Crinow in 1841 where he is very likely to have been living seeing as he was only about 2, but I can't even see a Stephens family there so I don't know what to do!

Has anyone got any ideas of where I could go from here? I'm all out of ideas! And the problem is only made worse by how many William Stephens there are!

Thanks,
Clare

Hi,

I just realised I said he was 2 in 1841..silly me, I meant 12!

Also, the only reason I would discount that one is that it's from Monkton, which is around 20 miles away from Crinow. Not exceptionally far, but Crinow is so small I felt he was being very specific when he said that! Any thoughts?

Thanks :)

Just to fill in the 1871 gap:

Name: William Stephen
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Susanah
Gender: Male
Where born: Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil parish: Loughor
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Llanelly
Sub-registration district: Loughor
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 47

Name Age
William Stephen 32
Susanah Stephen 32
Ann Stephen 8
Mary Stephen 6
William Stephen 4
Elizabeth Stephen 1

Thanks Ivy :) I'll have a look at that one now! See if I can salvage any clues from it!

FYI


the 1861 Census for William says Farmer's Servant


Henry is a Miller and Farmer


I guess the description for William means that he works on the farm itself, not in the mill






sylvia

Crinow v Monkton

When individuals have given a regular answer to the enumerators for some time, and then give a different one, it might mean that the enumerator was required to pin down the place of birth according to some specification

In this case, he is being more specific than the usual answer of "Pembrokeshire", but I have seen it the other way around, where a place is so small that the enumerator requires the individual to name somewhere more recognisable - this seems to happen especially where the individual was born some counties away from their current residence.

The other point to watch is the relative importance of the places - over time, a small village covering a large parish may come to be dwarfed by a new town springing up on its patch, so that although the larger town seems the more obvious place to name, the enumerator may be checking against a list of official parishes?

Wiki suggests that Crinow could be Crynwedd in Welsh

He was pretty old to be marrying for the first time ........ 39


Is there any possibility that he had been married before?




OR that he did not actually have a father?????




sylvia

Thanks Sylvia, good to know exactly what he was up to :)

I think Crinow is more usually linked to Haverfordwest though. Because I'm pretty sure that's what Narberth's address is, and with Crinow only 2 miles away it seems the most likely. But obviously, William might not have seen it that way - but it's that that particular family are recorded as living in Monkton that concerns me about that particular entry and makes me think it's unlikely to be them. But, at this stage, I'll look into anything to try and track him down!

Thanks everyone :)

I did see that Crinow is Crynwedd in Welsh..something I didn't know and I don't live that far away. :S

I did think he might have married before..but he never gives his marriage status as Widower (that I can see, I'm pretty bad a making out the writing on the census images).

I'll look into that possibility now. I do remember seeing a census with a wife Frances that might have been him.

But, I hope he's not another one with a mystery father..I don't think I could take ANOTHER one!

Thanks :)

This is the one I was thinking of. Landewi Velfry was apparently often lumped in with Crinow. But maybe a bit old?

1851 Wales Census about William Stephens
Name: William Stephens
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Llandewy, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llandewy Velfrey
County/Island: Pembrokeshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Narberth
Sub-registration district: Llanboidy
ED, institution, or vessel: 3a
Household schedule number: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
William Stephens 28
Frances Stephens 30
Elizabeth Stephens 5
Phoebe Stephens 2
Mary Stephens 4 Mo

Marriage:
Marriages Dec 1845
STEPHENS William Narberth 26 1002

Frances died in 1859!
Deaths Dec 1859
Stephens Frances Narberth 11a 385

Now to find the kiddies in 1861..

Hi Clare, yes, having now seen that Crinow is dwarfed by Narberth and that Monkton is really a suburb of Pembroke, my comments above are not useful for this chap.

The William and Frances couple are also seen on 1861 - William then says he is b 1820, same place (so distinct from the farm servant, unless he had scarpered and the wife put him down on the form anyway)

Thanks anyway Ivy, it's useful to know for the future :)

Oh, hang on, if Frances died are we talking about the same couple?

Name: William Stephens
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Landewy, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Llanddewi Velfrey
County/Island: Pembrokeshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Narberth
Sub-registration district: Narberth
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members:
Name Age
William Stephens 41
Frances Stephens 39
Phoebe Stephen 12
Mary Stephen 10
Ann Stephen 8
James Stephen 6
Emma Stephen 3
Margeret Stephen 5 Mo

That's strange, I thought I'd just found Frances' death. I can't see them in 1861.

Edit - yes you're right that's them, I guess it's just a coincidence then.

And 1871...definately not my William then..
1871 Wales Census about William Stephens
Name: William Stephens
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanddewi Velfrey, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil parish: Llanddewi Velfrey
Ecclesiastical parish: St David
County/Island: Pembrokeshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Narberth
Sub-registration district: Narberth
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
William Stephens 48
Frances Stephens 49
James Stephens 15
Enna Stephens 13
Margret Stephens 10
Catherine Stephens 7
William Stephens 5
John Thomas 17

Yes, prob can eliminate - here they are in 1871 too:

Name: William Stephens
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanddewi Velfrey, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil parish: Llanddewi Velfrey
Ecclesiastical parish: St David
County/Island: Pembrokeshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Narberth
Sub-registration district: Narberth
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
William Stephens 48
Frances Stephens 49
James Stephens 15
Enna Stephens 13
Margret Stephens 10
Catherine Stephens 7
William Stephens 5
John Thomas 17

SNAP

So we should pick up Sylvia's comment about his age - although he had fixed on being 10 years older than Susannah for most of his married life, he is quite a bit older in 1861 - a birth year of 1823

Oh dear, I was hoping I was getting somewhere.

Another possible marriage in 1851?

Marriages Mar 1851
Stephens William Narberth 26 839

Thanks for the help :)

There is this chap in 1851 who is not easily matched to 1861:

Name: William Stephens
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1828
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Cants, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Marloes
County/Island: Pembrokeshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Haverfordwest
Sub-registration district: Milford
ED, institution, or vessel: 6b
Household schedule number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Scale 25
Ann Scale 28
Margaret Scale 23
James Jones 60
Thomas Evans 22
William Stephens 23
John Griffiths 17
Ann Griffiths 25
Sarah Hawes 20