Find Ancestors

by the way Kevin I posted that marriage near the beginning on page 1

and the children Charles Annie and Emily are also shown on page 1 in the 1871 census

but if you did read through the thread, which I know is confusing, I think we don't think these are the people in question or related to this family


( when I posted here before my 'boardname' was my OH because it was his account in case anybody is confused ! )

Kevin it has been over a year since Marie posted in this thread, she is quite likely not looking for updates

if you click on her name you can send her a private message to let her know the information you have posted here, if her email address is current in her account at this site she will get a notice

you might also want to explain where your information came from ?

no notice is sent of replies in threads

I hope that helps

hi marie
hope this helps
sarah ellen cundall b1831 married in 1851to george pheasant b.1829
they had 4 children alfred 1853
charles 1855
annie 1859
and emily 1864

hi marie
hope this helps
sarah ellen cundall b1831 married in 1851to george pheasant b.1829
they had 4 children alfred 1853
charles 1855
annie 1859
and emily 1864

But on sarah janes birth certificate it shows her mother as being sarah not elizabeth.

Also i have just been looking in the 1861 census for John Ramsey (the people they were living with in 1871) John Ramsey born 1811 residing in Crowle, Thorne, and i noticed on the page a James Thorp, born Crowle aged 67, i wonder if this is sarah janes mother's father as on sarah janes birth certificateit shows her mother as sarah previously Thorp. I will do some more research on this James Thorp

that message posted only partially again and this is getting very troublesome. I copied it to clipboard and will try it again. I think I know, it was the pointy brackets used for pointers that made part of it disappear so I will take them out.




This is the Sarah J that I mentioned in 1901. I think she is Sarah Jane Pleasant with daughter Alice Mary Pleasant.

Name: Sarah J Welsh
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Crowle, Lincolnshire, England

Civil parish: Great Grimsby
Town: Great Grimsby
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Welsh 35
Sarah J Welsh 29
Alice M Welsh 7 ...... born in Crowle


These are Sarah Jane Pleasants and her daughter Alice Mary Pleasants and Sarah Jane is living as the wife of John Welsh although they were not married.

In 1911 John Welsh born 1865 in Bromley is living in Grimsby but no Sarah or Alice is living with him.



Then in 1891 there is the Sarah Jane Pleasant that Patricia posted on page 2


Name: Sarah Jane Pleasant
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Crowle, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Carlton in Lindrick
Town: Carlton
County/Island: Nottinghamshire

Joseph Skelton 46
Emma Jefferson 47
Annie Jefferson 20
William Henry Parks 30
Alfred Oulrans 23
Sarah Jane Pleasant 17



then in 1881 the household in Crowle


Name: Sarah Jane Plesance
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Crowle, Lincoln, England

Civil parish: Crowle
County/Island: Yorkshire

Elizabeth Plesance 59
Mary Ann Plesance 14
Sarah Jane Plesance 8



and before that they were living with the Ramsays in Crowle


Name: Elizabeth Pleasent
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Narford, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Crowle
Town: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Ramsay 60
Sarah Ramsay 64
Richard Warden 39
John Odnot 43
Charles Mann 29
Elizabeth Pleasent 39
Mary Ann Pleasent 9
Betsy Pleasent 12
George Alcock 40



These must be the births of Elizabeth's daughters Betsy and Mary Ann


Births Jun 1861
PLEASANTS Elizabeth Norwich 4b 97

Births Mar 1864
PLEASANTS Mary Ann Bowen Norwich 4b 122


I'm not sure whether these births have been posted here before. The Bowen looks like Mary Ann's mother, if they were married, or father, if they werent, was a Bowen. there isnt any Bowen-Pleasants marriage (or variation of Pleasants).


I think these are the right people and I think this is the closest you will get to sorting them out. George Pleasants and Sarah Thorp, I think those names just were not real.

deleted message because of the problems with posting, it is in the next message below

So it looks like Elizabeth Pleasant/Pleasance was never married in fact so she wasn't a widow, that just looked more respectable on the census.

We aren't seeing any definite way to connect that household up with Sarah Jane Pleasant supposedly the daughter of George Pleasant and Sarah Thorp.

Maybe if we think or search a little harder, lol.

I still wonder if Sarah Thorp wasn't really Sarah Pleasant a daughter of Elizabeth, maybe Thorp was her father's name, or the father of her daughter Sarah Jane, and she just made up the relationships to make it look like she was married when she registered the birth.

i have just received the marriage cert. of mary ann pleasant, unfortunately there is no named father on the cert. The marriage took place in the district of Thorne, residence at the time of marriage was Crowle and she was aged 22 years in 1885. Witnesses at the time were a William L Lambert and Eleanor R Brown.

thanks, i will order one now. I will let you know the outcome when i receive it.

You can order online from the General Register Office,
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
for £9.25

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Prices have gone up but not to £20, that sounds like what some private company charges and you never want to pay them (Ancestry for example), the gro will always be the best deal.

It is always nice to hear when somebody decides to follow up on something, no guarantees that certificate will help but sometimes you just have to take a chance. It will be very interesting to see whether it says something that might get you one little step farther !

I will send for the marriage certificate, could you recommend where to get it from, as all my other certificates were from Sheffield Registy Office at £7 each. I have ordered a couple on line which were not from Sheffield but they cost around £20.

Marie, what you have to do is read through it all slowly, lol

There is an Elizabeth Plesance in 1881 with a Sarah Jane who is called her daughter, I think she might really be her granddaughter.

That must be the same Elizabeth Pleasant who is living with people named Ramsey in 1871 also in Crowle.

Those Ramseys had a son Thomas who had a son William Henry Ramsey, that William Ramsey married in 1880 and was a Waggonner in 1881

There is just too much connection between that Elizabeth and those Ramseys for it to look like it is just a coincidence with the name on your girls' marriage certificates don't you think?

The problem is that we still havent found a George Pleasant or a Sarah Thorp anywhere but it is always possible that these were madeup names, the mother could have been a Sarah Pleasant unmarried pretending that was her married name for instance.

You know I also might just wonder whether that Sarah Jane Pleasant birth certificate is really your girl anyway

I would be really intrested to see what the marriage certificate of Mary Ann Pleasant who was the daughter of Elizabeth in 1871 and 1881 said for her father's name, it would be nice to know who Elizabeth's husband was if she had one, to try to find the family in 1861 for one thing. our Sarah Jane's mother or father could be a sister or brother of Mary Ann that we just haven't found yet.

bruce and all the other people who have helped, a big thank you to you all, i appreciate all the hard work you have put in. I just find it very difficult to understand what you are finding. Also with regards to the two separate postings, i did not know you could go back to the first one and add to it. I am v ery sorry if i have wasted some of your time.

and here's what I left out of William H Ramsey in 1881

Name: William H. Ramsey
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann M.
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowle, Lincoln, England

Occupation: Waggoner (Ag Lab) <<<<<<<

Civil parish: West Stockwith
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Registration district: Gainsborough

William H. Ramsey 24
Ann M. Ramsey 21
Harriete A. Ramsey
George Lee 18



that is a lot of coincidence, lol

any thoughts at all on all of the things I posted and all of the time I spent finding it?

note
I posted the death details that seem to be Elizabeth Pleasant/Plesance from the earlier census because it could be worth seeing who registered the death, it could possibly be Sarah Jane

On Sarah Janes birth certificate it shows no father, her mother registered the birth (the mark of Sarah Pleasant, mother, Crowle). It also shows Sarah Pleasant formerly Thorp.

On My grandmothers birth certificate Alice Mary, again it shows no father, and her mother registered the birth (Sarah Jane Pleasant, mother, Union Workhouse, Thorne).

It only shows father as William Ramsey on both their marriage certificates. Also it shows william ramsey as a farm carter on my grandmas marriage cert, and a labourer on sarah janes marriage cert.

What a lovely time you've had with the Pleasantses.

Well done,

Ozi.

Oh my, forgive me, but from all my searching through people with names Pleas* in Norfolk in 1861, I have earned this I think lol

Name: Christmas Pleasants
Age: 31
and his wife
Name: Esther Pleasants
Age: 29
and I wonder whether they had children named for every other gift-giving occasion . . .


Marriages Dec 1885
Haller Mary Ann Thorne 9c 1030
Lockwood John Thorne 9c 1030
PLEASANT Mary Ann Thorne 9c 1030 <<<
WEBSTER Robert Thorne 9c 1030


I have hoped to find that Elizabeth Pleasant/Plesance from Norfolk who lodged with Ramseys had a daughter Sarah (or even a son George) who could be the mother (or father) of Sarah Jane

But I cant find her in 1861 to save my life. That is the only Ple* marriage in Thorne district 1875 to 1890. Elizabeth died in 1884

Deaths Sep 1884
Pleasant Elizabeth 60 Thorne 9c 493

Her age varies a lot in the records but I think it makes sense that she was the grandmother of Sarah Jane Pleasant one way or another.