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I'm back. I think in 1861 John must have disappeared for the night but I have found the family, which agrees with some of my findings but they are alive and well in Heckmondwike
James Ellis 41
Caroline M Ellis 37 ..music teacher
George Foster 17
Samuel A16
Walter H 13
Mary E 7
Adelaide 4 mths.
I will leave you with this info, I have to go and eat now as I have nearly taken root . They may well be there in 1851 but I just haven't the time at the moment. Hope this is less confusing-Good luck -JLe

I have had a quick look at the 1851 , cant find all the children but James and Caroline are living in George Street Huddersfield,...... my own territory!- I will get back to you but I have to eat.-JLe

You star. My gran used to talk of Heckmonwyke and most of those names agree. John Foster Ellis is missibg and Mary E could be Mary Elizabeth who was I believe one of George 's daughters but at 7 she would be too old. I have come to the conclusion that children could have been with other members of their families etc. I am still trying to tie Caroline Foster to the John Foster of Black Dyke Mills. IF what my gran said was correct then the connection could only be between Caroline and the Black Dyke Mills Fosters. She had three brothers James, Phillip and John no mention of a Thomas. How do you find them so quick I can barely read the records. Thanks

Hi Florence
Just another bit of info, it doesn't really help at the moment but it may help you keep an open mind on a brother Thomas for Caroline. Whilst in Huddersfield Caroline and James had a Thomas Foster Ellis born Sep 1850 re 22 369 and a death of a Thomas Foster Ellis in June qtr 1851, just after the census. So Thomas may be a family name-JLe

Hi Florence- Something isn't adding up here. On the 1841 there is Caroline M Foster aged 15 with parents George Foster and Hannah. The youngest child is Geoge Frederick Foster aged one. This all fits in with the baptisms at Horbury. Whilst they appear to be wealthy people in that it says Caroline's father is a manufacturer (the same as John Foster)and lives at Cliffe House Horbury I cannot see any connection with the Queensbury Fosters. On the baptisms of All Saints Wakefield there is a George Foster bapt 30 May 1798 (this fits with the census 1841)son of Joshua and a Joshua Foster bapt 1 Dec 1764 son of John Foster.John Foster of Queensbury was born 1798 and I cannot see any more family to bridge the gap-JLe

Could Caroline Foster's father have been a brother to John Foster do you think? My grandmother did say that there had been a falling out with the Black Dyke Mills family. I am not sure whether the baptism or christening dates happen when born or a couple of years later.

Hi Janet It sure isn't adding up In the 1941 census John Foster and Ruth, had William, Sarah, Samuel???? Jonas, Abraham, Marianne, John. Ruth, Hannah and Jane but according to Blacky Dyke Mills web John Foster only had 7 kids, I am giving up for the moment and going to bed. Thanks for all your help.

Hi Florence - in answer to whether Caroline's father could have been a brother to John I would say no. One of my great grandfathers was from Horbury and he was bapt. at All Saints.He was born in 1806. His children were all baptised in Horbury suggesting that baptisms took place at All Saints at an earlier time as he alway entered place of birth as Horbury. I could be wrong on all my assumptions but George Foster fits in with the bapt. 1798 at All Saints but according to info on John Foster he also was bapt. 1798. There are several entries for a John Foster on familysearch in the right area (which I know lots of people tell us to ignore) but these do suggest that he was christened in Thornton Bradford which is spot on for location . I only found one where there was a batch number and was able to find possible siblings for John and there wasnt a George Foster among them.-JLe

Next bit of info.Looked at Caroline's father George Foster in 1851, everything fits it then .......lo and behold a grandson.....a visitor....eureka but I think they have entered the wrong name. Could this really happen? The entry on the census says Samuel Walter Ellis......I know this is not helping the connection to John Foster but it hopefully will confirm Caroline's parent and her brothers.I have checked freebmd and there was a Walter Henry Ellis born in Wakefield 1848 March, this fits in with the family in 1861. This is the time that the mother was in Huddersfield and this child possibly didn't know its full name. There are no Samuel Walter Ellis's on the freebmd which fit in.The census in 1851 says that brothers George Foster 11 and Joshua Foster 24 are at home at Cliffe House.-JLe

Hi Janet, this is taking some working out isn't it. Was there any chance that Caroline's mother was also a Foster and could she be the link. Do we know who Caroline's brothers and sister's were? Do we know who George and Hannah parents were?
Thank you for your help on this. The mystery deepens.
Florence

Hi Janet, I think I need to read things correctly. How could George Foster married to Hannah, with Caroline 15 and George 1 be christened in 1798 if he was according to 1841 census born in 1800? His occupation was given as a manufacturer. Do you know whether or not I would be able to get marriage /certificates for James Phillip Ellis and Caroline and both her father and mothers. What info do I need to have to do this?
Florence

Hi Florence.- just to confuse things in the 1841 census, unlike later ones, the age of children up to the age of 15 should have been entered as whatever age they were. However after 15 all ages were rounded down. So if a person was 17, it would be entered as 15. If as in the case of George Foster his age was entered as 40, it means he could have been anything from 41 to 44, so this is why it could be correct that he was christened in 1798. On the 1851 census his age is entered as 52 but the census was taken at the end of March so if he hadn't had his birthday it still fits in with a baptism in 1798. You will not be able to get certs for him as they didn't start until Sep 1837. You will be able to get a marriage cert for James and Caroline.The ref is Wakefield 22 407- 1842 . Perhaps you would like to google 'freebmd' this will give you all the information I have just given you. If you then google GRO you will find the site where you can order the certs on line. Have a go, if you have any problems come back to the boards as the first to read will help you-JLe

Janet, I am going to try to get their certificates and see what else I can find.
Very very difficult to find the correct information. Thank you for your help.

The marriage certificate is definitely the best way forward. Keep us posted.-JLe

Hi Janet, I now have the copy marriage certificate for James Ellis and Caroline Milnes Foster. It was at Horbury Chapel in the parish of Wakefield. 24th February 1842. James Ellis was full age and Caroline was a minor. His fathers name was Samuel Ellis a manufacturer and hers was George Foster a manufactuer as we know. She was given as residing in Horbury and his was Ossett although it looks more like ofseth. Guess who was a witness our old friend John Foster.

Brilliant .........John Foster.

I hope you have more luck than me with my Horbury relative. His name was John Haigh basket maker/manufacturer and his witness was James Haigh, I have tried to track down every Haigh in Horbury and account for them but I cannot find James Haigh and connect him to my gt grandfather....no way. You would think when you have come so close that the rest of the information would just flow in.
I wish you every luck with your quest. Please keep us informed. -JLe

. GEORGE FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 MAY 1798 Horbury, Yorkshire, England

2. JOSIAH FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 APR 1792 Horbury, Yorkshire, England

3. THOMAS FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 JUN 1787 Horbury, Yorkshire, England

4. EDWIN FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 DEC 1804 Horbury, Yorkshire, England

5. EDWARD FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 12 JUL 1802 Horbury, Yorkshire, England

6. WILLIAM FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 JUN 1796 Horbury, Yorkshire, England

7. JOSEPH BEDFORD FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 APR 1794 Horbury, Yorkshire, England

8. MARY FOSTER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 08 MAY 1800 Horbury, Yorkshire, England


the probable siblings of George Foster of Horbury son of Joshua Foster and Mary Bedford-JLe

Thanks for the info Janet. Apparently in those days it wasn't unusual to have a number of children to different mothers. If they weren't married and children weren't christened how do we find out any info for them. As I am looking for mine I will keep an eye open for yours.

Just checking the batch number for the possible siblings and four of them belong to a Joshua Foster and Mary- 1798-1800-1802-1804 but because Joseph has Bedford as his name I think that all these eight children will be George and his siblings.
............having said that my relative John Haigh did not have his last child baptised anywhere, even though three of his children were born in Huddersfield they still trailed them to Horbury to be baptised at the same church as the rest of his children.
Occasionally people got baptised prior to their marriage if they hadn't been 'churched' as a baby. -JLe

Looking at the possible marriage of Joshua Foster to Mary Bedford on 24 th Ap 1786 in Wakefield there is a christening at All Saints Wakefield of a Joshua Foster on 1 Dec 1764 son of John Foster. That might be the connection to John, even though it isn't what is wanted.-JLe