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Thank you Wayne,glad to help.

Goes off to polish my Halo now..:)

Just another big thank you as it looks like you've been spot on with your census searches and also we seem to have confirmation that Mary Ann is Mary Jane.
Just had a hint for Mary Jane's sister Emma as per the censuses you suggested and someone has a family tree with her in and has Emma's husband as Frederick Symes, making her Emma Symes - and thats a match for the 2 witnesses i mentioned earlier at John and Mary Ann's wedding.
:)
An amazing bit of detective work on your part
Thankyou again

Yeah its certainly a fun family lol. John does a similar vanishing trick... He's in Wales all his life, but barely with Mary by the looks of things then on 18th September 1879 he is present at his brother Benjamin's death in Cardiff, but his address is 15 Temple Street London
Then in 1881 he seems to be in Lyme Regis, Dorset
i havent found him in 1891, but my distant relation says "Possible John Farmer 1891 - If you do a search for John Farmer 1851 but born in Radnorshire it shows a John living with a Henry Lyne in Blaenavon. He is lodging with a Benjamin James both Harness Makers but Benjamin is shown as born in Brecon. I wonder if this was an error and the place of births should of been the other way round. Also Martha married in Blaenavon and her mother was from there plus Ann Farmer lived with a Ann James at one point. "
but i'm not sure on that on.
And still i haven't found his death registration though by 1899 he is lol
Thanks again for your help, you're great - i was trawling through hundreds of possibilities on ancestry.com till now.

Here are Martha and baby John Roberts on 1841(I think),but no sign of Hubby George and young Janie


ROBERTS, Martha F 26 1815
ROBERTS, John M 1 1840

Registration District:
Clifton Sub District:
Westbury & Henbury Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Westbury upon Trym Municipal Borough:
Bristol Address:
Clarence Place, Westbury Upon Trym, Stoke Bishop, Bristol County:
Gloucestershire

Jane/ie?I do think so as it looks as though she may be with uncle and grandparents as the name Isaac is also one of her brothers names (born 1851ish),do you?

ROBERTS, Isaac M 60 1781 Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Elizabeth F 60 1781 Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Isaac M 30 1811 Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Jane F 3 1838

Registration District:
Thornbury Sub District:
Thornbury Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Thornbury Municipal Borough:
Address:
Falfield, Thornbury County:
Gloucestershire


George?

Address:
Wellington Place, Clifton

ROBERTS, George M 26 1815

I do think they are the same person myself
Mary Jane /Ann/Anne as there are no other Mary ?Roberts born Thornbury that fit everything we have.

Maybe she was born Mary Jane but having an older sister called Jane/ie as per the 1851 census changed her middle name later in life?

It certainly seems to me that you have the correct marriage of 1874 then...whew.

So I have got her parents in 1861 and 1851 then...another ...whew..

Dont know where they all are on 1871 though,they are all just gone..!


All the male side on Annies birth and the marriage in 1874 corresponds with what we have on here.

I'm 95% sure its my John Farmer,a Saddler marrying
Mary Ann Roberts Cardiff.The Witnesses are sadly Frederick Symes and Emma Symes. John's address is 8 Quay Street which is one of Benjamins properties as found elsewhere.
The certificate states his father as Benjamin Farmer a saddler.
On the 1851 we have an Annie Farmer - living with her grandparents Benjamin and Eliza Farmer. He is listed as being a saddler.
I have so much info on Benjamin its unreal - he's a big man in Brecon and Cardiff and Newport.
Annies birthplace is down as Oldham, Lancs on the census.
A distant relation sent me Annie's birth cert. Her father is listed as John Farmer, saddler and her mother as Mary Jane Roberts. Then in the signature section for the mother it looks like it says Mary Anne then the Anne is crossed out and Jane underneath.
It is a bit odd...

1851

Name: George Roberts<<<<<Master Butcher..!
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Berkley, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Thornbury
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Thornbury
Sub-registration district: Almondsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
George Roberts 36
Martha Roberts 35
Jame Roberts 13
John Roberts 11
Elizabeth Roberts 8
Emma Roberts 4
Isaac Roberts

Went bust maybe so went labouring in 1861?

1851 by Find my Past.

ROBERTS, George Head Married M 36 1815 Master Butcher
Berkley
Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Martha Wife Married F 35 1816
Freshford
Somerset
ROBERTS, Janie Daughter F 13 1838
Frome
Somerset
ROBERTS, John Son M 10 1841
Pool
Dorset
ROBERTS, Elizabeth Daughter F 7 1844
Falfield
Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Emma Daughter F 4 1847
Falfield
Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Isaae Son M 1 1850
Falfield
Gloucestershire

Registration District:
Thornbury Sub District:
Thornbury Enumeration District:
4A Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Thornbury Municipal Borough:
Address:
Tything Falfield, Thornbury County:
Gloucestershire

Hi Wayne.

I think we have a slight problem here.
Your Mary was born in Thornbury on every census I can find her on including 1911

TUCKER, Mary Head Widow F 54 1857 Charwoman Glos Thornby
Address:
10 Rolls Street Cardiff

but on her ref for marriage in 1901 she is Mary Jane

Marriages Dec 1901
FARMER Mary Jane Cardiff 11a 670
TUCKER James Cardiff 11a 670

But on her 1874 marriage she is Mary Ann Roberts?

Are you sure you have the right marriage cert for her to Mr Farmer?
And yes I know it is me who pointed you at it..:))

I can find no birth of a Mary Ann Roberts in Thornbury but I can find a Mary Jane.

Births Dec 1856
Roberts Mary Jane Thornbury 6a 148

This is her on 1861

ROBERTS, George Head Of Family Married M 46 1815 Labourer
Nibley
Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Martha Wife Married F 45 1816
Nibley
ROBERTS, Isaac Son Unmarried M 10 1851

ROBERTS, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 7 1854
ROBERTS, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 4 1857
Thornbury
Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, ... Daughter Unmarried F 1 1860

Registration District:
Thornbury Sub District:
2 Thornbury Enumeration District:
7 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Thornbury Municipal Borough:
Address:
Thornbury County:
Gloucestershire


With a father George who of course may have started butchering after the census was taken.

But I can find not a one of them for sure in 1871 to check.

Do you have Arthur Farmers birth cert?I cant remember.

Or are you sure its her on the marriage cert in 1874...

Dont suppose the witnesses are Roberts?
No such luck I guess...

Well i've found out a little more than last time. Thomas turned out to be a Master Gunsmith, along with with brothers George and John and father Jeremiah. One of George's pistols can be seen on the Melbourne Victoria Museum Website if you google George Farmer Cardiff Percussion Pistol.
I'm now back at John Farmer and his wife Mary Ann Roberts in the 1870s.
I have their marriage certificate for 22 April 1874 and she was born in 1856 and her father was George Roberts a butcher who had died by 1874. I can't seem to find her and her father in either of the 1871 or 1861 censuses. In 1874 she lived on St Marys Street in Cardiff but theres no number. Any ideas? One of the censuses said she was born in Thornbury.

Records office in Brecon?

Or do they call it the Archives there like they do in Carmarthen?

National Library of Wales?

http://www.llgc.org.uk/

IGI / Family search?

www.familysearch.org

I am rubbish at Parish records,ask anyone round here..:)


So you are on your own now Boyo.....Soz

But Im willing to try and help with anything NOT parish if you like...

Well i have a father for Benjamin. Thomas Farmer, a Gun Maker from Brecon St Mary. Benjamin is his son from Thomas's second marriage on 06/05/1804 to Ann Williams. There is a girl called Mary Farmer produced from Thomas's first marriage - i guess she was born about 1800ish - i don't know her mother's name. I don't know anything about Thomas's birth as of yet. Any ideas on how i go about finding info - as i have nothing solid :(

Thanks again :)
Got a mother for Benjamin there by the looks of things - now to find his father :)

1841


FARMER, Ann F 59 1782 Breconshire
FARMER, Benjamin M 25 1816 Breconshire<<Saddler
FARMER, Eliza F 25 1816 Breconshire
FARMER, Thomas M 3 1838 Breconshire
FARMER, Ann F 1 1840
WILLIAMS, Richard M 30 1811 Breconshire
POWELL, Mathew M 25 1816
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
1371 Book/Folio:
3/13 Page:
19

Registration District:
Brecknock Sub District:
Brecknock Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
St David Municipal Borough:
Brecon Address:
Church Street, St David, Brecon County:
Brecknockshire

1861


FARMER, Benjamin Head Married M 45 1816 Saddler & Auctioner
Brecon St Marys
FARMER, Eliza Wife Married F 46 1815
Carmarthen Bridge Street
FARMER, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 21 1840 Dressmaker
Varteg
Monmouthshire
FARMER, Eliza Daughter Unmarried F 16 1845
Brecon St Marys
FARMER, Benjamin Son M 13 1848 Scholar
Pwghllis
Breconshire
FARMER, John Son Unmarried M 10 1851 Scholar
Brecon St Mary
FARMER, William Son Unmarried M 7 1854 Scholar
Brecon St Mary
FARMER, George Son Unmarried M 4 1857
Brecon St Mary
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
4212 Folio:
88 Page:
14

Registration District:
Brecknock Sub District:
3 Brecknock Enumeration District:
14 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
St Marys Municipal Borough:
Brecon Address:
Saddlers Shop, High Street, St Marys, Brecon County:
Brecknockshire

Apparently Ancestry.com don't have the 1861 or 1871 records for the area - i can't find the 1871 one you've found on there. Annoying.

In 1851 there is a Benjamin with an Eliza, and a load of kids in Brecon St Mary
and Benjamin is listed as Town Crier.
The same person i assume?

Tell me about it,but it keeps the mind active...

We would make good Tecs thats for sure..

LOL you like spending my cash... hehe. Not sure i can afford that just yet, my gf will go mental if she knew how much i was spending when i can't afford it lol.
Will take this info down for now and maybe see how i get on till next payday...
Thankyou Fanny you're a star :-)
This is way too addictive...

More poss marriages in Gloucestershire.

Marriages Sep 1875
>>>>FARMER John Witney 3a 1023
FORDS Caroline Witney 3a 1023
GODFREY Edward Witney 3a 1023
>>>>LOCK Mary Witney 3a 1023


Marriages Dec 1876
Bennett Sarah Witney 3a 1193
Butler Thomas Charles Witney 3a 1193
>>>Farmer John Witney 3a 1193
>>>WIGGINS Mary Elizabeth Witney 3a 1193


My first choice would be 1875.

Look for a Mary Lock born right time and place in earlier census.


But of course the birth cert for Arthur would take the guess work out..:))

I found the marriages but wasn't sure which wife went with which male lol. You think Mary Ann Roberts is the most likely?