Find Ancestors

is there some one who understands welsh place names
could the place of birth for Annie Lydia Hart given as
Lanpurnset or Lanpurm_set could it be Llanpumsaint
Carmarthan rather than Glamorgan

found a birth for
Anna Lydia Martin Mar Qua. 1862 Carmarthan 11a 648

if its the Annie L Hart 1881 then it may give you the maiden name of Elizabeth Martin / Wookey / Brown

Mavis

Mavis, I read it from the actual image as LLanpumsaint and I also found the Carmarthen birth in 1862 for AnnA Lydia Martin and agree the birth cert would be helpful and feel sure this is the right one
I suspect what we are dealing with here is a "Navvy" family with suspicions of officialdom which led them to change their surname every census, tho the odd thing is that childrens forenames and birthplaces are surprisingly consistent
By the way, how did you find out that Joseph Wookey in 1901 was the "husband " of Elizabeth Martin despite the "Brother" entry? Or was it just a result of finding the earlier census?

To recap -we have a Thomas who may or may not have marrried an Elizabeth (born 1841/3 Walsall)
Their daughter was Annie Lydia b 1862 Carmarthen who married (or not -cant find marriage) Charles Hart around 1880 if the 1911 census is to be believed. Prior to that marriage Annie Lydia gave birth to Frances Ann Martin in 1878 who married Charles Stockdale.
Charles Hart b1849 Standon herts is with his parents 1851 and 1861 but cant find him 1871 or 1881 -tho his "wife" Annie L Hart is with her mother in 1881. I suspect he may have been in the Army or Navy in those years and abroad
But finding Elizabeth will not be easy -short of looking at each Elizabeth born Walsall 1841/3 and following through to delete those with marriages to other names would be very time consuming

Gillian, I looked first for Joseph Wookey found him 1851 he had no sister Elizabeth ??
Looked in later cencuses had found he had a "wife" Elizabeth born Walsall which made me put 2 and 2 together.

This marriage may be of interest

Charles Hart = Annie L Martin took place 1918 in Oldham
June Quarter 8d 961
did Charles decide to make an honest woman of her at last !!!!!

No marriage for Joseph Wookey and Elizabeth Martin
Mavis

I wonder about this one
Thomas Martin married Elizabeth Hoult 1861 Dec Q Cardiff 11a 331

1861 Llantrisant Glamorgan
Thomas Hoult 56 Lab b Blackburn
Ann 48 wife b Blackburn
BETSY 21 b Pasal Staffordshire
James Hoult 6mths nephew b Llantrisant

The "Pasal" could be Walsall?

Lets hope Brenda decides to have a look at all this , we may well have sorted her family between us

I hadnt had a look for a marriage for Thomas Martin and a Elizabeth so you may well be right if so what became of Thomas ??
The marriage in Cardiff would explain a birth in Wales
I think that Navvys where of the beaten track at times so may well have been missed on census, they also lived in temp. huts

Did "Betsy" have a "son" could well have bit more to chase up

Mavis

This could possibly be the Thomas and Ann Hoult of 1861

1871 Dowry Place Clifton Bristol
Thomas Holt 64 Labourer b Lancashire
Ann 61 wife b Littleborough Lancs
James 10 grandson Errand boy b Wales

Which would lend credence to your suspicion, Mavis, that James was Betsy's son despite being called a "nephew "in 1861
Well done for finding the marriage of Charles Hart to Annie Lydia -better late than never!

My goodness Gillian and Mavis you have been busy! Well done you seem to be cracking this one. Keep up the good work.

I do hope that Brenda comes back soon to acknowledge your efforts on her behalf.

It all boils down to

Mrs Charles Hart -- is Anna Lydia Martin [Mar 1862] she is the daughter of Elizabeth and Thomas Martin [=Cardiff ]
Annie L Martin [Hart] daughter Frances -- Frances , daughter Naomi last Naomi's daughter

Mavis

I can't believe who much you have managed to find out for me, You lot are absolutely Marvellous!!!!!!!!

I can't thank you enough.