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http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1233717

"had at least one child my grandad Walter Turner in Pancras North London n 1898"

Is this your grandfather? (born 1898, reg 1899?)

Births Mar 1899
Turner Walter Pancras 1b 6

You have the birth certificate? What does it say for the parents' names and the father's occupation? What is the address?


"She later [after 1891] had a illegitimate son Alfred, and had him registered as Powell her grandparents surname and not Turner?"

Can you please show us the birth registrations you're talking about?? And the census entries you're talking about?? You have them, why make us go guessing and hunting for them?


btw, my post at 20:52 - ?

Do you think they are the right Robert Tovey and Henry Turner??

Could you maybe explain what "a Pearly wedding as in Pearly Kings and Queens" means? I have no idea, I'm afraid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearly_Kings_and_Queens

............


kidsnpets, if you're going to resign yourself to them being a mystery, as I think you've said before, could you at least not start any more threads about them?

Hi
thanks for the replys, this is my grandads family in 1911

1911 census
TURNER, HENRY HEAD MARRIED M 43 LABOURER BUILDERS MILDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ADA T WIFE MARRIED 22 F 37 N MIDDLSEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ALFRED SON N M 14 SCHOOL MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, WALTER SON N M 12 SCHOOL MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ROSE E DAUGHTER N F 7 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ADA T DAUGHTER N F 6 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, GEORGE W SON N M 3 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, TREY SON N M 2 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS

it is Ada F snr not T,
I have gone through freebmd and can not make anything match.
The only one that shows up in the previous census is Jennie Turner and even her name is on the 1911 census then crossed out but is put dont as Jane?
She later had a illegitimate son Alfred, and had him registered as Powell her grandparents surname and not Turner?

Adas wedding to Robert was a Pearly wedding as in Pearly Kings and Queens. so wouldnt show up in records.

I am confused too, dont know how they show up in 1911 and no where else.
Even Walter who was christened just Walter Turner had gained the middle name James by 1911.
I am just going to give up i think, i first posted this when i first started my research in 2008, wasnt sure how u went about it, then left it after i had a housefire.
Think i will just have to resign myself that they are a mystery!

many thanks for all your help.

Do a boards search for TURNER TOVEY, and we get a few more clues ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1089422

October 2008
hi i am trying to find as much info as possible on Alice Hoare and Robert Turner married in March 1890 Camberwell, London.
particularly interested in there children, and whether she was from Canada.
any help would be great.

1901
Alice C Turner 29
Alice S Turner 9
William S Turner 7
Henry C A Turner 4
Walter J Turner 9 months

i dont have the marriage certificate, there is a possibility they are my grandads parents, i know his father was Robert, not sure about his mother, but i do know when my grandad Walter james married in 1920 his father was desceased,
and according to his son who is now 81,
Roberts wife remarried someone called Tovey, and had more children
so i think her husband died fairly young,
and there is an Alice Turner on 1901 census in Lewisham who is a widow, with a son Walter J who is a baby.


No further news on that one either ... but that sure sounds like a red herring.

We do know that there is a child Walter involved, anyhow!

Oh, and another one ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1089582

Oh, sometimes I just like to take the messy ones and sort them out just to save others the time and trouble when they show up again!

Robert and Ada had an "unofficial pearly wedding", so I've googled "pearl wedding anniversary" and see it's the 30th. So if Robert died in 1939, they must have been together by 1909.

We're told they raised 17 children between them. It gosh darn sure would have helped to know some of those children's names, wouldn't it?? Like, do they include any of the names in the 1911 Henry & Ada household? Because if Robert was born c1857, as that death record indicates, and if Ada was at all the same age, she/he/they surely would have had some of those kids wtih them in 1911 ... if they were together 30 years before he died in 1939.

Ada and Mr Turner surely don't seem to be together in 1901 with children Walter and Alfred.


If that *is* Ada with Mr Turner in 1911 as posted on p.1, then I'm suspecting this is Mr Turner in 1901 in Hackney:

> Henry W Turner 33 - born Shoreditch, contractor's carman
- right age, occupation, location
Elizabeth Turner 29
> Alfred Turner 4
Elizabeth Turner 2
Matilda M Turner 1 month

Births Jun 1901
TURNER Matilda May Hackney 1b 448
Deaths Jun 1902
Turner Matilda May 1 Hackney 1b 263

Births Sep 1899
Turner Elizabeth Mary F Shoreditch 1c 87
Deaths Dec 1903
Turner Elizabeth Mary F 4 Shoreditch 1c 63

possibly
Deaths Jun 1906
Turner Elizabeth 35 Shoreditch 1c 64
or
Deaths Mar 1907
TURNER Elizabeth Martha 35 Hackney 1b 348

possibly
Marriages Dec 1890
Greenwood Alice Ellen Hackney 1b 892
Lee Elizabeth Hackney 1b 892
Smith Henry Hackney 1b 892
Turner Henry William Hackney 1b 892

Or possibly Elizabeth didn't die.

Alfred and Walter in 1911 are 14 and 12. The next child is 7. This does suggest that the family is a combined one -- Alfred is Henry's, Walter is Ada's, and the later children are theirs together.


Interesting household in 1891 in Mile End Old Town

Robert Tovey 33 - born Briston c1858
Matilda E Tovey 29
Robert C Tovey 5
Alice L Tovey 3

Births Mar 1888
TOVEY Alice Lily Mile End 1c 571
Marriages Dec 1915
Tovey Alice L Louden Mile End 1c 996

But I can't see 'em in 1911.

Aha. In 1911:

TOVEY ROBERT 1860 51 Mile End Old Town London
TOVEY MATILDA 1862 49
TOVEY ROBERT CHARLES 1886 25
TOVEY LILLY 1888 23

Is this our Robert?

(Tovey was very possibly pronounced Toovey, i.e. rhyming with move.)

Someone has Alice 1888 Mile End London in her tree here at GR.

Marriages Dec 1884
Tovey Robert Mile End 1c 932
Waselius Matilda Elizabeth Mile End 1c 932

Deaths Jun 1925
Tovey Matilda E 63 W.Ham 4a 208

If so, his wife was still living until 1925, one possible explanation for no Ada+Robert marriage.

I think this is one to forget Janey. I don't know about you but I've never felt so confused!!

Hm, not so interested, I guess. I just did a board search to check whether we might have started over again somewhere else, and accidentally searched for TURNER TURVEY instead of TUVEY and found one I'd missed:

Any relatives Ada Powell married to Henry Turner
Hi, is there anybody on this board who is related
kidsnpets 21/10/2008 18:28:46 5 replies

"is there anybody on this board who is related or has info on Ada Powell who married Henry Turner in Pancras in 1888 had at least one child my grandad Walter Turner in Pancras North London n 1898, then Ada later remarried someone Turvey, possibly Robert, who had relatives Charles and John Turvey"

And another - you see the problem I'm afraid don't you.

Name: Ada Turner
Death Registration Month/Year: 1962
Age at death (estimated): 90
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5d
Page: 675

Another possible -

Name: Ada Turner
Death Registration Month/Year: 1959
Age at death (estimated): 85
Registration district: Battersea
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 26

How thoroughly have you checked for a likely death kidsandpets? Have you for instance sent for any death certs that proved to be the wrong ones?

Obviously Ada Turner is a very common name and there are many possible deaths in the London area after Sept 1939 (which is when Robert Tuvey died). Going through the list though and going by her age in 1911 the first one that looks a real possibility is this one -

Name: Ada Turner
Death Registration Month/Year: 1956
Age at death (estimated): 81
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 816

I haven't got time to go through the complete list but this one might be a good place to start. I know that it says Ada T Turner on the 1911 transcript that was posted but I can't find a likely birth for an Ada T Powell around that time and it does just say Ada on the marriage reference.

Name: Robert Tuvey
Death Registration Month/Year: 1939
Age at death (estimated): 82 = c1857
Registration district: Pancras
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 98

No such birth. No such person in 1911. No Robert Tuvey birth before 1884, Pancras.

One Robert Tuvey born 1852-1862 in any census:


1861

Name: Robert Tuvey
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Sarah
Where born: Hackney, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Norwood
Town: Southall
County/Island: Middlesex

Charles Tuvey 39
Sarah Tuvey 38
Mary Tuvey 17
Harriett Tuvey 12
William Tuvey 9
Sarah Tuvey 7
Robert Tuvey 3
John Tuvey 3 Mo

father Charles died 1908.


I'll bet this is him in 1911:

TURVEY ROBERT 1855 56 St Pancras London

Was his wife (or maybe second wife, 1903) Ellen?

There has got to be some confirmation of something to go on, here!

You do need to stop wasting others' time.

If you get the Powell-Turner marriage certificate it will give you an age and father's name for Ada. The info on the 1911 census suggests she was 15 when she married. Hm.

You may then be able to find her actual birth. A real birthdate should help find her death. *If* that was her marriage. *If* they were married.

I don't see an Ada Turner with a Henry husband in 1891 or 1901. Or a Walter Turner with parents Ada and Henry in 1901. Something's screwy.

What actual hard info do you have? Where does the name Ada Powell come from? A child's birth certificate?

No one named Trey anything was born 1906-1910. I wonder whether that's what the 1911 really says.


edit

Births Dec 1908
Turner Thomas Joseph Pancras 1b 6

Births Jun 1903
TURNER Rose Beatrice Pancras 1b 162

Births Jun 1904
Turner Ada Maude Pancras 1b 91

If those are some of the children, the children's names/initials on the 1911 transcript seem to bbe screwy, and I'd check the original image. Ada Sr may not have middle initial T, either.

I recognize the username, I do a boards search ... and in this case I find, searching for *turner tuvey* (all same user number):

Please, Please can anyone with ancestry do a marri
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kidsnpets 11/08/2010 00:08:01 13 replies

still cannot find her death anywhere, someone pl
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Hi I am trying to find out if my great grandad He
kidsnpets 03/12/2008 16:31:36 74 replies

HELP PLEASE, Need to know what to do next.
I have been struggling to find info on my grandad
partydancer 03/10/2008 09:50:37 24 replies

Remarried details please!!
Hi, i am trying to find my grandads, mothers rem
partydancer 02/10/2008 18:08:24 25 replies

Descendants of Tuvey/Turner marriage
Hi trying to find any info on ????? Turner (femal
partydancer 02/10/2008 17:50:39 3 replies


Such thoughtfulness and consideration for other users of the boards, to keep posting the same matter and wasting their time over and over.

1911 census

TURNER, WILLIAM LEWIS HEAD MARRIED M 47 PAINTER AND KITCHEN ARTIST GLAMORGANSHIRE LLANDAFF
TURNER, ADA FLORENCE MARY WIFE MARRIED 22 F 45 MONMOUTHSHIRE NEWPORT
TURNER, WINIFRED ELSIE DAUGHTER SINGLE F 21 NO OCCUPATION SURREY PUTNEY
TURNER, WILLIAM HERBERT LEWIS SON SINGLE M 20 CLERK COMMERCIAL SURREY PUTNEY
TURNER, THOMAS HUGH LEWIS SON M 5 MIDDLESEX ST MARGARETS


therefore the Ada's death in 1940 is not your relative.

What makes you think that she was Ada F M TUrner please? That death for Ada F M Turner in 1940 would have made her born about 1864.

Have you got the original marriage cert to Henry?

Hi

Henry Turner was married to and living with an Ada T Turner on the 1911 census, not Ada F M .

Marriages Sep 1888
POWELL Ada Pancras 1b 146
Turner Henry Pancras 1b 146

1911 census
TURNER, HENRY HEAD MARRIED M 43 LABOURER BUILDERS MILDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ADA T WIFE MARRIED 22 F 37 N MIDDLSEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ALFRED SON N M 14 SCHOOL MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, WALTER SON N M 12 SCHOOL MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ROSE E DAUGHTER N F 7 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, ADA T DAUGHTER N F 6 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, GEORGE W SON N M 3 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS
TURNER, TREY SON N M 2 N MIDDLESEX ST PANCRAS

Hi
thanks for you replys Adas maiden name was powell, and she was married to Henry Turner, not sure if he died before Ada lived with Robert Tuvey.
He is deceased on his sons Walters marriage cert in 1919, but seems to show up as a visitor to his daughter at a workhouse after that?
Ada and Robert Tuvey brought up 17 children between them.
But had a unofficial pearly wedding,
Robert diedin 1939, so it would have been a quick marriage to William before she died in 1940 if that is the correct date she died.

hope that makes sense.

thanks

Hi
what do you have that is definite?

who was your grandparent? for example....

If she lived with Robert Tuvey I presume she didn't marry him? So she could be the widow of William Lewis Turner couldn't she?

The only way is to buy the cert ...

Jill