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Working on Henrys father William being the son of Robert, brother of the Abraham Mary mentioned. There are just so many Oakes! x

urrrrghhh, now I'm getting mixed up, Henry wasnt a lighterman, sorry it was Sophias father!
Its a bank holiday, maybe i should take a rest for a day
Lisa x

Hi Root
I think I may have found him on 1841 census. Given that he married in 1884 age 45 puts him born about 1839
1841 census shows Father William mother Barbara,Henry age 1.
Father is customs officer, linking Henrys waterman/lighterman occupation.

???

1851

Name: Henry W Oakes
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Exe, Suffolk, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: Haggerstone
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerstone East
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 39
Household Members: Name Age
James Thorwood 32
Frances Thorwood 31
Henry W Oakes 13

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1538; Folio: 221; Page: 8; GSU roll: 174768.

Lisa, thank you so much for coming back to let us know that you have the correct certificate. Yes, helpers do come back to check for updates although we don't always get them!

Will have a wee look and see if we can find Henry with his dad.

Just in the passing, you would like it if you had Scots ancestors as marriage certificates give the mother's name including her maiden surname as well as the father's name and occupation. Scottish birth certificates also tell you the date and place of the parents' marriage - very useful for generations to come as so many young people now chose to marry in exotic places!

Hi All
I'm not sure if anybody ever comes back to check out their good work but here goes
I recieved Henry and Sophias marriage cert and it confirms Joseph Rolles is Sophias father, his occupation shows as a Lighterman where as its Waterman on 1861 census (quick google confirms their similarity so this did not throw me for to long!)
Unfortunately Henrys father is William (a Miller) and not Abraham but he is widowed which confirms his first marriage.
So William is now my new lead to check out this week but a huge thank you to the people who helped me

Lisa x

p.s. are Mothers names never mentioned on marriage certs? x

Thanks Mary
It is very kind of you to have kept looking for me. I think I will have a look at my Ancestry tree which has been neglected for about a year, couldnt cope with running 2, it was confusing!
Lisa x

Henry William Oakes 1838 son of Abraham born Suffolk 1790-1882 and frances nee Chambers 1793-28/12/1875.

Frances Chambers 1793 daughter of Robert Chambers born hoxne Suffolk @ 1770.
Robert was married to Elizabeth and they also had Maria @ 1820 it is her who had Frances/Fanny Chambers who married Henry William Oakes.

There are lots of trees with these people on Ancestry.co.uk.

1861 census for Henry Oakes and Fanny they have Harry Chambers brother in law age 13.

So you are on the right family.

Maryb

Another connection,the other of the witness on marriage of Louis Sutton and Amelia was Nellie Norman.Louis also signed with that spelling.

I coudn't make the first name out but second name looked like Norman.
1901 with Henry and children was a visitor Nellie Norman born Peckham 1883 dressmaker.

Maryb

Thanks, thats what I'm looking for at the moment!
Lisa x

This looks like the one whose birth you think is possible- so when you get the marriage certificate of Henry and Sophie you can compare the father's name and occupation before you order the birth certificate.

1861

Name: Amelia Rolles
Age: 1 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth

Civil parish: Lambeth St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Waterloo Road First
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 38
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Rolles 26 Waterman
Elizabeth Rolles 24
Emily Rolles 2
Amelia Rolles 1 Mo

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 348; Folio: 58; Page: 9; GSU roll: 542619

I have managed to find possibles for both his marriages -
to Sophia (born Amelia I now think) 1884 and
to Frances Chambers 1859, she died 1882, which would fit the next marriage
Nothing proven yet but working on it
Thanks agian for all your help I am really very grateful

Lisa x

Lisa

Did you find a marriage for Henry and Sophie? I couldn't see anything obvious but perhaps I was just missing it.

haha, I think they saw me coming and knew it wouldnt take much to confuse me

Lisa x

Wouldn't it be great if we could go back in time and ask our ancestors why they like to make it so difficult for us, lol

Kath. x

ok, if anybody comes back to view this,
can you believe the only mother I can find for the Amelia Sophia who is actually Sophia Amelia is actually born Amelia Sophia and not Sophia Amelia.
How very confusing!
I cant wait to get these certificates ordered
Lisa x

thank you Mary x

One of the witnesses to the marriage of Amelia and louis was Arthur Oakes,so there is another connection to 1881 census showing Arthur age 11.
The address they were at at time of marriage was 6,Ellery Street for both of them.
It says louis was a soldier,dad John Henry Sutton a platelayer.Desceased.

Yes Frances is another name for fanny.

Maryb

Thanks rootgatherer
could Fanny be short for Frances?

Just for good measure, it looks like Sophia Amelia's Mum die from childbirth complications?

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Dec 1893 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oakes Sophia Amelia 34 Camberwell 1d 660




Looks like it was a second marriage for Henry

1881

Name: Grace Oakes
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Fanny
Gender: Female
Where born: Peckham, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 35 Clayton Rd
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 8a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Oakes 41
Fanny Oakes 40
Arthur Oakes 11
Grace Oakes 2


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 682; Folio: 14; Page: 22; GSU roll: 1341158.