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Have a lovely day out with your Granddaughter Dea. Hope it is as warm and sunny where you are. It's really great here in sunny Scotland today (today's probably our second summer's day this year!!).

Looks of interest though Rootgatherer - if only to eliminate.

Just taking my little grand-daughter out for the day, will look back tonight.

Dea x

Just having a look about to see if there is any family connection between the Charles family and Shillito name - even just to eliminate it.

There seem to be more Shillitos in the North of England rather than the London area. I noticed that Mabel was born in Lancashire and wondered if she was a relative of Ellen's.


1901

Name: Mabel Charles
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Henry B
Gender: Female
Where born: Barton On Orwell

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 20 Oakhurst Grove

Condition as to marriage: Married


Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Camberwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 46
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Henry B Charles 33
Mabel Charles 32
Norman H Charles 1
Gertrude M Morton 20 Servant

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 501; Folio: 89; Page: 3.


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHARLES Henry Brooker Camberwell 1d 1629
Gregory Mabel Camberwell 1d 1629


1891

Name: Mabel Gregory
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Burtorapa Irwell, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Ealing
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Ealing
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Brentford
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Gregory 51 Printer
Jane Gregory 48
Harry B Gregory 24 Cashier
Mabel Gregory 22

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1031; Folio 11; Page 16; GSU roll: 6096141.

1881

Name: Jane Gregory
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Worbley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Chorlton On Medlock
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 17 New York St
Condition as to marriage: Others
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Housekeeper

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Chorlton Upon Medlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Gregory 36
Harry Gregory 14
Mabel Gregory 12
David F. Williams 24
Henry Pearson 24

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3916; Folio: 61; Page: 16; GSU roll: 1341935


1871

Name: Thomas Gregory
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Barton Upon Irwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Catharine
Town: Barton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Barton Upon Irwell
Sub-registration district: Barton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 219
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Gregory 31
Jane Gregory 29
Harry B Gregory 4
Mabel Gregory 2
Maria Cowen 14

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3969; Folio: 153; Page: 36; GSU roll: 841957.


???

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carr Jane Chorlton 8c 788
Gregory Thomas Chorlton 8c 788



So there doesn'e seem to be a family connection there!

Hi Gill,

If you want the image of the birth details, pm me your email address.

It does seem likely that she just said Mabel was her mother's name, it's quite possible she never knew her mother and didn't want anyone to know that.

Christine

I know Eileen's mother was called Mabel because she told her daughter Kathy that was her name. However I am now wondering whether she called Mabel her (Surrogate} mother if she was kind and good to her, I'll follow the Lambeth Union story through as it does sound more plausible. It sounded just right that she was with Mabel Charles and her husband Henry in 1911, but I think she may have been just a servant and not daughter in the Charles Household in 1911. Kathy also told me that Eileen Shillito was baptised in 1908 in Glynde when she was working at Glynde Place but the Vicar of Glynde checked for me and she wasn't baptised at all in Glynde.
Some of this doesn't tie up but on the whole it has been exactly right.
I am so grateful t you all for taking all this trouble on such an intriguing story.Gill

Hi Gill,

I'm also puzzled as to why you think Eileen's mother was Mabel Charles.

Sylvia, It appears the birth was registered as I posted on Page 1.


Births Dec 1893

Shelito Ellen Lambeth 1d 400

Christine

Hi Gill,

Can you tell us what info you have found which shows Eileen's mother to be 'Mabel Charles' please?

It does seem strange that the one we have found has the same surname, exact same date of birth and also location but 'her' mother was recorded as Ellen ??

There was also no other child born on that date in this 'establishment' ?

Thanks,

Dea x

Thank you for helping me so far, but today I have been to the National archives to check out all the information found so far. Eileen's mother was Mabel and I am sure that Mabel Charles is Eileen's mother. Something prevented Eileen from telling her daughter Kathy about her past and an illegitimate birth in Lambeth Union must have been the ultimate degradation. It was horrid to find Eileen as a domestic servant in a middle class household and not to be acknowledged as her mother's daughter. Kathy knew that there was something drastically wrong with her mothers early years so now I hope we have cracked it. Many thanks again,
Gill

super work Dea


and the image shows that although they have not copied the next page, the entries continue across, and one can see the letters Illeg


thus confirming that there is no father named


This seems as if it is the record book for the births in the Lambeth Poor Law Union



of course, she may never have been registered, as so many babies were not registered!




sylvia

Yes, that's what was worrying me too Christine - it certainly would be usual to find it in the March Quarter, however, this IS the one !!


I can't see the mother at the moment.

Dea x

Well found Dea.

Correct birth date, I did wonder if the birth would have been registered in the following qtr as it was so late in Dec but it certainly looks like the correct one.

Whether we'll be able to find her mother is another quest.

Christine

Well, I have found an interesting Parish Register Entry on Ancestry to match the birth found by Christine.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Ellen
Name: Ellen .............. She was just down as 'female' on register, and marked illigitimate.
Record Type: Births
Date: 23 Dec 1894 ..... *** This is mistranscribed - should be 1893 !!
Mother's Name: Ellen Shelitoe
Poor Law Union: Lambeth
Borough: Lambeth
County: London

Birth was 23rd December, 1893.. 7.10 am................... Bingo !!!

Well at least we now know who her mother was!!

Dea x

Yes Rootgather, I think there is a very good chance thet Christine has indeed found the birth !!

Nice one Christine. !!..

Dea x

Christine, that birth looks good! I don't see an Ellen Shelito (or variation) on the 1901 census nor a death on FreeBMD. Well done!

Just to say that I have sent in an alternate name change on that 1901 Census

I read it as Eileen Shilleto on the actual image



sylvia

Yes her daughter does know where her mother died and she visited her in Canada, and it would seem that Christine in portugal may have found her birth as Eileen was born on December 23rd1893 according to her daughter.
Thank you all so much, I can now try to trace some sort of family tree,
Gill

Glad you are pleased Gillian, I just wish we could find her birth for you but it does not look as if she was registered..... dratt.........

If you friend has any other info, please add it to this thread.

Do you know when and where Eileen died?

Does her daughter know on what day she celebrated her birthday?

Any little scrap might just help.

Dea x

P.S. - Your friend emigrated in 1946, travelling with her little daughter Shirley who was born in England - she went to her father-in-law's address in Canada.

Dea x

This is the nearest possible birth reg I can find.

Births Dec 1893
Shelito Ellen Lambeth 1d 400

Christine

Perhaps she wasn't registered at birth or was given another name altogether. Anyway many thanks indeed, it was worth getting up so early because I couldn't sleep!
Gill

It is a pleasure to help, Gillian but we are no nearer to finding her birth!