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OK, not posted on here for a while (ooops)

Work's been manic, but it would appear that we are now looking for a Thomas and Bridget Lamb born c1800 and married c1820-ish

can't find any BMD records relating to them, anyone got any good sources for BMD's around the wirral and Liverpool at that time?

Cheers,

Mike

I came across this thread whilst searching for something else and I am afraid I may have to throw the proverbial spanner in the works with regards to Michael's reasoning on St. Peter's church.

The St. Peter's church you found is not, in fact, the one in Woolton as that church was not built till around c1826. The one in question I think you will find, is this one...and was extrememly well used for bmds!!

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Liverpool/StPeter.shtml


ps I used to live not far away from Woolton!.


Here is a link to Hale Village which is near Widnes and part of the Diocese of Liverpool.

http://www.halevillageonline.co.uk/

Sorry to cause even more confusion for you Michael.....but.......:)))

Cx.

Right, on the basis of a gut feeling, I looked into geography not geneology.

The Hale I was thinking of is not the Hale that used to be part of Lancashire, in 1822, the Hale near Altrincham was part of Cheshire and had been for at least 14 years.

The Hale in Lancashire, would now be classed as the Wirral and is a village near the Mersey.

Using familysearch.org there is a baptism for John Lamb on the 31st March 1822 in St. Peter's Church, Liverpool.


Interestingly enough, St. Peter's is not technically in Liverpool, it's in Woolton Village,(Much Woolton ring any bells with anyone?? – 1851 census hit)

There are 2 other baptisms from the same parents:

Thomas Lamb 10th December 1820 – St. Peter’s
Elisabeth Lamb 17th March 1824 – St. Peter’s

The parents were Thomas and Bridget Lamb, so they will have married before the earliest christening (1820) but I can’t find anything.

Could this be a new line of enquiry?? Me thinks so

has anybody had any luck at all?

Edit: I'll take it we've hit a brick wall for the time being then.

I'm talking to my Dad's great uncle's who would be descended from Herbert at some point this weekend to see if they recall anything.

I know, I know, I just thought I'd hit the shortcut jackpot, but hey ho.

Time to do things the proper way. I guess

Don't be 'gutted' Michael.

This 'hobby' is very addictive but if you just 'go with the flow' you can get back to 'Adam and Eve' in 20 minutes.! but it won't be right !!

There are many people on these sites who just link up names - we ALL connect somewhere!!

The 'trick is that every one you find must be 'proved' before you accept them on your tree!!

That is the 'satisfying 'way - to know that what you are adding is correct.!!!

You are doing well but the last link does not connect.

You cannot go back with certainty over 120 years in 24 hours. - Have a little patience !!

Take a little break and I (and Janey-the genius) will be back tomorrow.

We will help you then.

Dea Xxx

<<<Now has a headache.

Dea, it would appear that your delve into the Runcorn area would be correct.

After many hours this afternoon, it would *appear* that "our" John c.1823 didn't live with his family in the 1841 census.

There are 3 John Lamb's born in Lancashire, c.1822

One takes us back to Glasson Dock, which we've established, is a dead end.

One takes us to John Dugdale's farm in Tock How, Ulverston.

The third and final one takes us to a John ?'s Blacksmiths, on Brock Street in Lancaster, Aged 19 he is working as a Blacksmith. But looks like this could lead us to a dead end. Because this is as far back as I personally can get

Gutted.

Mike

Right, OK.

Someone gave me details of Ernest’s family on the 1911 Census, from there I tracked back to 1901.

11 Meadow Banks Castle Terrace (Now Meadow Bank, Winsford)

Head: John Thomas Lamb Age 28 Salt Maker
Wife: Annie ? Age 30 No Occupation
Dgtr: Ethel Lamb Age 8
Son: Guy Lamb Age 4
Son: John William Lamb Age 2
Son: Wilfred Lamb Age 0

PRO Ref: RG 13/3343

1891 Census:

44 Well Street, Over, Winsford

Head: John Lamb Age 44 Salt Boiler – B.Hale, Lancashire
Wife: Sarah J. ? Age 45
Son: John Thomas Lamb Age 19 General Labourer
Son: William Lamb Age 17 Bricklayers Labourer
Son: Josiah Lamb Age 13 As Above
Dgtr: Elizabeth Age 8
Dgtr: Ethel Age 4

PRO Ref: RG12/2840

1881 Census:

256 Station Road, Winsford (Grocers Shop)

Head: John Lamb 34 Salt Maker – B.Hale, Cheshire
Wife: Sarah Jane ? 35
Dgtr: Sarah Ann Lamb 13
Son: John Thomas Lamb 9 Scholar

PRO Ref: RG 11/3529

1871 Census:

76 Gravel Lane (Later Station Road) Winsford

Head: John Lamb 24 Salt Boiler – B.Hale, Lancashire
Wife: Sarah Jane ? 25
Dgtr: Sarah Ann Lamb 3

PRO Ref: RG 10/ 3699
1861 Census:

Address: Over, Winsford (could be anywhere in a 3 mile radius)

Head: John Lamb 39 Labourer – B.Middlewich, Cheshire – Wrong I feel
Wife: Jane ? 39 B. Hale Banks, Lancashire
Son: John Lamb 15 B. Hale, Lancashire
Son: Illegible name 11 B. Halton, Lancashire
Son: William 9 B. Cheshire, Over (Winsford)

PRO Ref: RG 9/2605

That’s as far as I’m willing to go now, as if my inkling over the Middlewich birth place is wrong, I need to look deeply into the 1851 Census to find him.

The logical step I took was to look Lancashire way, and put John (39) as being born in Thurnham, whether my 2+2 = 8 I don’t know.

Hope this is food for thought for now though.

Mike

Now then Michael, - I will forgive your facetiousness as you are 'poorly' !!

You may well have reams of info on the Lamb family but I fear that some of it does not 'quite fit' (tee hee !!)

Go find your numerous bits of paper and come back to us!

Dea x

P.S. - I hope you are feeling a little better now you are home !!

Dea x

well you are a bunch of busy bods aren't you!! lol fortunately/unfortunately I've had to come home from work with a sickness bug so have managed to catch up a few hours early, the way I've managed to get back to James Snr. 1792 is just by tracking the census' back to 1841.

If you track back from Ernest's parents 1901 you can follow the family up to Glasson Dock in 1841.

Or so I'm hoping, I've got that many pieces of paper dotted around the living room it's ridiculous.

i've seen that a few contributors to this thread are also lamb's if you want information about the lamb family in cheshire, let me know, i have reams of it now!!

Mike

Michael,

You say this in your post above:

"John (1822) was the son of Glasson Dock's Dock Master James Lamb Snr. (c.1792) and Agnus ? (c.1790) he had a brother James Jnr. (c.1815) and a sister - Margaret (c. 1826)"

On the basis of this, Janey has posted this John with parents James + Agnes, for reference, from the 1851.

I don't believe this is 'your' John as I have posted him, already married to Jane with children from the 1851 above.

They are not the same John. !

Can you tell us how you came to James + Agnes please?

Dea x

This, I believe, would be John's birth - the district includes Hale which was then in Cheshire:

Births Mar 1847
Lamb John Altrincham 19 21

Cheshire/Lancashire Borders kept 'moving about' !!

..........................

His marriage to Sarah Jane:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
Name: Sarah J Atherton
Spouse: John Lamb
Year of Registration: 1866
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Northwich
County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 412

............................


1871 England Census
about John Lamb
Name: John Lamb
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah I Lamb .............. should be Sarah J
Gender: Male
Where born: Hale, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Wharton
Ecclesiastical parish: Wharton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Northwich
Sub-registration district: Over
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members: Name Age
John Lamb 24 .....Salt boiler
Sarah I Lamb 25
Sarah A Lamb 3

at Gravel Lane.

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3699; Folio: 115; Page: 16; GSU roll: 842114.

......................

With parents + family on 1861 (he has several brothers, including William !)

1861 England Census
about John Lamb
Name: John Lamb
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Lamb
Mother's Name: Jane Lamb
Gender: Male
Where born: Hale, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Over
Ecclesiastical parish: Whitegate
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England


Registration district: Northwich
Sub-registration district: Over
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
John Lamb 39 Labr. at Salt Works.
Jane Lamb 39
John Lamb 15
Joseph Lamb 11
William Lamb 9
Thomas Lamb 5
James Lamb 2
Hannah Oakes 19 . House servant !


Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2605; Folio: 72; Page: 7; GSU roll: 542998.


.............

John, with family again on 1851:

1851 England Census
about John Lamb
Name: John Lamb
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane Lamb
Gender: Male
Where born: All birth places - 'unknown' !!

Civil parish: Much Woolton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:.Allerton Rd.

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Hale
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Household Members: Name Age
John Lamb 28 Labourer
Jane Lamb 28
John Lamb 5
Joseph Lamb 2
Edward Lamb, lodger Above 20

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2193; Folio: 170; Page: 26; GSU roll: 87202.

................

I 'fancy' this marriage ?? - BUT as yet, It is only a guess !!!!!!!!!!!!

I will see if I can come up with any proof?


Marriages Jun 1846 :

Faulkner Mary Runcorn 19 219
Gregson Charles Stuart Wirral 19 219
HOUGHTON Robert Runcorn 19 219
***Jackson Jane Runcorn 19 219
***Lamb John Runcorn 19 219
Laurinson Mary Runcorn 19 219
Lawrinson Mary Runcorn 19 219
Leech Richard Runcorn 19 219
Rowlinson Margaret Runcorn 19 219
Starkey George Runcorn 19 219

Dea x

EDIT:

The above marriage is NOT the one - that John married Mary Faulkner !!!! dratt !!!!

I will leave the details on so that it can be discounted!

Dea x

Name: Ann Lamb
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 1843
Baptism/Christening Place: ST. MARY, LANCASTER, LANCASHIRE, ENGLAND
Father's Name:
Mother's Name: Betsy Lamb
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Agnes Lamb
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 1843
Baptism/Christening Place: ST. MARY, LANCASTER, LANCASHIRE, ENGLAND
Father's Name:
Mother's Name: Betsy Lamb
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975


The 1851 household is in:

Registration district: Lancaster

I suspect those are the two girls in the household.


There's a Betsy Lamb marriage to Thomas Johnson 1847 St John, Lancaster, Betsy aged 26 (c1821), father John Lamb.

If you search here (advanced search)

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html

for James Lamb, wife Agnes no surname, any event, 1810-1830, Lancashire, England, UK

you get the baptisms of Margaret Lamb and William Lamb baptised on the same date in 1825 in Cockerham. Could the parents be your James and Agnes? They could have been twins, or just baptised in a batch; William may not have survived.

No marriage though, unfortunately.

Can you give the sources of the pre-1837/1841 info you have posted above? E.g. James 1792 and Agnus 1790. Just so those helping know where you've searched and what you've found.

Okay, 1851 census:

Name: Agnes Lamb
Age: 61
Estimated birth year: abt 1790
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: James Lamb
Where born: Thurnham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Thurnham
County/Island: Lancashire

James Lamb 59
Agnes Lamb 61
James Lamb 36
John Lamb 29
Margaret Lamb 23
Agnes Lamb 8 - niece
Ann Lamb 8 - niece

If you were to get a birth certificate for the nieces, it would give you the mother's or parents' names. The Lamb parent would theoretically be a sibling of James Sr there, although it's more likely the relationship is slightly other, I'd think. It could still be worth having the info.


Do delete that other thread; it could just mislead someone in future.

Right, OK, so on the request of Dea, here is a map of where I'm upto now.

As we established, Ernest's dad was John Thomas Lamb.

Ernest was the youngest child og JT Lamb & Annie Preston

There was John B. c.1897, Guy same birth, Wilfred B. c.1899, Herbert B. c1905, Harold B. c.1907, Harry B. c.1910.

John Thomas (1872) was a middle child of another John (c.1847) and Sarah ? (c. 1846) his siblings were: Sarah (c1867) William (c1874) Elizabeth (c1883) Ethel (c1887) and Josiah (c.1878) at this point they were in Cheshire, however John (1847) was from Lancashire.

John (1847) was the son of John (c.1822) and Jane ? (c.1822) he had one brother - Wiliam (c.1852)

John (1822) was the son of Glasson Dock's Dock Master James Lamb Snr. (c.1792) and Agnus ? (c.1790) he had a brother James Jnr. (c.1815) and a sister - Margaret (c. 1826)

James Snr. is the furthest I have got back and would love to go further if anyone could help!!

Cheers,

Mike

Hi Dea,

Thanks for that, that Joseph Woodward showed on the 1911 living with my ancestors and yet Ethel was nowhere to be seen.....Hmm that could be something to look into another day.

Thanks everyone for all your help, even Helen who jumped ahead 20 years lol

Mike

Before I go.....
possible marriage:

Marriages Mar 1911
Groom Gertrude E Northwich 8a 374
Jervis Frank N Northwich 8a 374
***Lamb Ethel Northwich 8a 374
***Woodward Joseph Northwich 8a 374

Dea x

Well Michael,

I have been called a Gem, a star, a genious, a 'miracle worker', - I have also been told 'I rock' !! but an 'Ayatola' is a first (tee hee !!)

Have to go and do 'mundane things' now like cooking tea but will be back later !!

Dea x

1881 England Census
about John Lamb
Name: John Lamb
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Hale, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Wharton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address: 256 Station Road (Grocers Shop)
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Salt Maker

Registration district: Northwich
Sub-registration district: Over
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Lamb 34
Sarah Jane Lamb 35
Sarah Ann Lamb 13
John Thos. Lamb 9
William A. Lamb 7
Josiah Lamb 3
Levi Lamb

Ernest Snr. is my great grandad, Ernest Jr. is my Great uncle who tragically died in Malaya 1951 aged 21, but that and my struggle with the MoD is a different story altogether

Edit: Dea are you some sort of geneology Ayotola?? You are a legend, that would seem to match in perfectly, given the families history with the salt mines