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Nice to see the update Geoff, thanks. What a great thing it is when you find living relatives, makes such a difference, as everyone knows something however small and it puts it all together. I am sure you are gorgeous in your own way (as am I at 55!).
Jan

Hi Brummejan, just so you know, Ivy and I are trading info and gradually finding the answers. Incidentally the "gorgeous" does not refer to me (at 60+ I do not qualify) but to the gorgeous triplet girls presented to my son and him wife 3 years ago!!
I have only just seen your question to Ivy of 5th Sept. On my certificate William's father was shown as deceased and he was a Spinner and Caroline's father was a Labourer
Regards,
Geoff

hi jan
i got elsies birth certificate to day and you were right william and hanna were living at 120 pearson st .thats the same address .as hanna elsise and martha were living at in the 1901 census william was a painter of some sort as underneath the word painter it says something else but i cant make the word out so now im stuck ,i cant find any trace of williams father daniel .so i seem yo have come to the end of my search .i just want to thank you for all the help you and the others have given me you have been so kind

hannah father was james ellis pickering he was a manager thats all it say so i dont know what he was a manager of also he was born in heywood the same as hannah on the 1901

on mine it says william s father was a cotton spinner and his name was daniel byron sorry but i dont know his date of birth i am having a problem finding him.

We are assuming here that the 1911 entry I found is correct and it might not be. All hinges on that occupation I suspect. Can you ask Geoff what this on the marriage cert for William and Caroline? In fact let's go one step further and find out their fathers' occupations too. It sounds obscure but believe me this can make or break a finding.

Have sent you a PM by the way.

Jan

hannah pickering married william byron hannah gave birth to elsie in1900 elsie is my grandmother. in the 1901 census hannah elsie and hannah s sister martha were living together. .in 1902 hannah died, in the 1911 census elsie was living with william and his new wife caroline. ,now the problem is that the marrage certificate i have for william and hannah says williams father was called daniel .on the certificate that jeff has for william and caroline it says william father was called john .on mine hannahs father is called .james ellis pickering and on doing a search for him i found out that he had a few children. and 2 of his daughters were called hannah and martha so that fits in with the 1901 census for hannah .1n the 1911 census ellsie shows up living with her father .and as willim did not remarry till 1903 elsie was born before they married .i am so confused

Ivy, I'm really sorry but I am struggling a bit with your last post. Getting a bit lost!
While we wait for your computer to behave, it might be an idea to take a deep breath and re-group. Can I ask how you got back to Elsie in the first place?
jan

thanks jan for your help i hope your offer to try and work out what he did is still open as soon as my pc is fixed i will attach it i am at the moment . working on a laptop which i hate i dont even know if i have the right certificate as jeff said williams dad was called john and on the 1 i have it says his dad was called daniel .so the 1 i have may be wrong .,but mine says that hannah s father was called james ellis pickering .james had a few children .2 of his daughters was called hanna and martha and in the 1991 cencurs it shows hanna and martha living together with elsie hannas daughter so i am wondering if there is 2 hannas and 2 williams with a daughter called elsie . this is quite strange as geoff certificate is later than mine as it is william and his second wife caroline so jeff could be right and mine could be wrong so now im stuck

As you have sent for Elsie's birth cert i suppose it makes sense to wait for that really.
Jan

my aunty says he was a army sargent she is 76 and may have it wrong is there anyway i can check it out as her memory is not that good

Ivy, if you want me to have a look, and know how to attach documents to emails, let me know and I'll send you my email address.
Jan

hi i got the marriage certificate of hanna and william i am still waiting for elsies birth certificate ,but i cant make out what his profession is as it is badly written .so i am hopping it will be better written on elsie s birth certificate

Ivy, so pleased you have found the "gorgeous" Geoff! Hope this goes some way to solving your puzzle.
Jan

Hi Ivy, "gorgeoustriplets" is my screen name - Geoff Bailey

Ivy, it could be that William was not actually in the house when the enumerator called. I was advised by more experienced researchers that if he was (for example) between his place of work and home when the census was taken then he would not have been included. The census apparently only reflects people who were actually in the building at the time.

i will let you know and i can also tell you that thanks to everyone who helped i am now in contact with williams grandson geoff his mother was louie

Well, that will be interesting Ivy. Let us know what it says won't you.
jan

hannah and wlliam married in 1898 i am waiting for there certificate to come so i wont know what his job was

Well, in 1901 Hannah is nead of household but married rather than widowed which implies William has left rather than died.

Marriages Mar 1903 (>99%)
Byron William Manchester 8d 253
Hewitt Caroline Louisa Manchester 8d 253