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I've drawn a total blank in the censuses from 1841 - 1911 for one of my ancestors - except for just one reference to the correct name, and he's a Chelsea Pensioner!

Could his being in the Army be the reason he is not in any censuses?

Does anyone have a subscription to Find My Past.co.uk who could look up the record for me please?

Kind Regards

Graham

born where please?

There is this one. He is a Steel Refiner's Labourer. In 1841 he is a Corporal in the Royal Artillery. In 1861 Roseanna who was born in Ireland is a widow.

1851

Benjamin Crooks
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1808
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Rosey Crooks
Gender: Male
Where born: Walkley, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Sheffield
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
Town: Sheffield
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Crooks 43
Rosey Crooks 42
John Crooks 13
William Crooks 11
Eliza Crooks 9
Samuel Crooks 8
Joseph Crooks 6
Mathew Crooks 5
Andrew Crooks 3


Deaths Jun 1856 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crooks Benjamin Sheffield 9c 178

from a free search on FMP (don't have a sub for this record)

British Army Service Records 1760-1913

CROOKS Benjamin 1808 Nether Hallam, Yorkshire

But as Anne of Green Gables said, it would be helpful to know his place of birth, or if Astra's 1851 is correct.

That's interesting. The youngest child on the 1851, Andrew was born at Parkhurst IOW!

Hi Astra / Somerset Girl,

Unfortunately, this is the wrong Benjamin.

Mine is the father of William Thomas Crooks who was born in Stepney, London circa 1847/1848.

I'm very grateful to you both for looking.

Thanks and very best wishes,

Graham

Oh well! There you go.
Will look some more!
On the birth certificate of William Thomas what was his mother's name please.

Sorry Astra - I don't have William's BC.

To be very honest, I just might be clutching at straws as I'm basing my information on this wedding .............

Groom's Name: William Crooks
Groom's Birth Date: 1847
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 19
Bride's Name: Eliza Abbott
Bride's Birth Date: 1847
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 19
Marriage Date: 10 Sep 1866
Marriage Place: Chapeltown, York, England (Parish Record)
Groom's Father's Name: Benjamin Crooks
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: E Abbott
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I03077-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1938087
Reference Number: 39
Collection: EnglandMarriages, 1538–1973

Right. I had found William and Eliza on the census and thought it might be the one. I can't find him with Father Benjamin though which is why his mother's name is so important. Do you have the certificate for the marriage? William was under age so would need parental permission to marry and the witness names may be of use.

Hi Somerset Girl,

I've no idea what Benjamin's occupation was.

It is possible that William might be a bit older.

I think I'll take your advice and buy the 1847 BC.

Thanks ever so much for your help!

Best Wishes

Graham

Just adding this since I'd replied to your post on Chat and suggested you post here, so I have it in "my threads" can look back later when I have a minute.

You're not being very forthcoming I'm afraid, Graham!

Can you reproduce the census details for the Benjamin you found who was a Chelsea Pensioner?

You do *know* this marriage to be your person? --

Groom's Name: William Crooks
Groom's Birth Date: 1847
etc.

And he is your ancestor?


I think you need that marriage certificate *and* the birth certificate so you have some info that can be used!

And if William is your ancestor, you can tell us who his child/ren was/were, and do you have the family in a census after the 1866 marriage?

Could I guess that these are them in 1871?


Name: William Crook
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza Crook
Gender: Male
Where born: Ratcliffe, London, England

Civil parish: Kimberworth
Town: Rotherham
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Rotherham

William Crook 23
Eliza Crook 23
Lydia Crook 3
Mary Ann Crook 1
John Abbott 21
Edward Abbott 19

So 1851:

Name: William Crookes
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Grandson
Where born: Ratcliff, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Wapping
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Stepney

James Patis 56 - I'd say Pates, born Lambeth
Maria Patis 58
Elizabeth Wayment 52 - sister, widowed
Maria Nichols 26 - niece
Elizabeth Green 18 - lodger
Lydia Keith 10 - granddaughter
William Crookes 3

Ratcliffe and Wapping were in Stepney registration district, the location of the 1847 birth.

-- edit -- ignore this one -- I'm leaving him here since he's been ruled out, but it isn't him.

1861?

Name: William Crookes
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Crookes
Mother's Name: Eliza Crookes
Gender: Male
Where born: Wapping, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Wapping
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Stepney

William Crookes 58 - Ballast Setter?, born Tipperary, Ireland
Eliza Crookes 49 - born Tipperary, Ireland
William Crookes 12
Elizabeth Crookes 17 - born Wapping


Could the reason for no record of Benjamin Crooks be that there wasn't one?

The 1851 household in 1841, St Anne Limehouse, Stepney:

James Pater 46 (I might still say Pates ;) )
Maria Pater 50
Elizabeth Wayment 41
Elina Kuth 18 (Keith, of course)
Lydia Kuth 11 MO

Eliza Keith is a decade too young to be Eliza Crookes in 1861 ...

Interesting that William's first child is Lydia, though.

I could be wrong!

JAMES PATIS
Spouse: MARIA DAVIS
Marriage: 02 MAY 1824 Saint Dunstan In The West, London, London, England
Batch No.: M096742

AMELIA JANE PATIS
Birth: 07 DEC 1827
Christening: 24 FEB 1828 All Souls, Saint Marylebone, London, England
Father: JAMES PATIS
Mother: MARIA
Batch No.: C053911

That's the only birth shown to them; she married Sep 1852. She is a servant in the 1851.

I wonder whether she was his mother and not married to his father who was really Benjamin Crooks, and William was taken in by an uncle ...

How bizarre. The 1841 Pater household above is clearly the 1851 Patis household (presence of Wayment and Keith) -- but in 1841 there is a whole different James and Maria couple:

James Pates 40
Maria Pates 39
James Pates 16
> Amelia Pates 14
John Pates 4
Caroline Pates 1
Civil parish: St Pancras
County/Island: Middlesex

So Amelia in my previous post doesn't seem to be (directly) related to the Patis household that William Crookes was with in 1851.

And an interesting household in Wapping in 1851:


Name: Benjamin Crooks
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza Crooks
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Mile End Old Town
Registration district: Stepney

Benjamin Crooks 24
Eliza Crooks 26
Benjamin Crooks 5
Eliza Crooks 1

Benjamin is a labourer at a cooperage.
James Patis was a hoop bender.
They were in the same line of work.


Who will be this Benjamin in 1841:


Name: Benjamin Crookes
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire

Benjamin Crookes 50
Elizabeth Crookes 40
Margaret Crookes 15
Benjamin Crookes 14
Ann Crookes 11
Thomas Crookes 7
Sarah Crookes 5
Mary Crookes 3
Jane Crookes 1


Just too many interconnections between Yorkshire and Stepney for this all to be coincidence!


Oh yes.


Marriages Jun 1845
Canning John Shoreditch 2 424
> Crooks Benjamin Shoreditch 2 424
Crouch Sarah Shoreditch 2 424
> Miller Eliza ** Patis ** Shoreditch 2 424
Scholfield George Shoreditch 2 424
Sheen Elizabeth Shoreditch 2 424
Stembridge Samuel Shoreditch 2 424
Turner Sarah Shoreditch 2 424


Q.E.D.

Those are your William's parents. In 1851 he is living with his maternal grandparents, and in 1861 he is living with some relations of his father.

-- edit -- no he isn't -- this will be him in 1861:

Name: William Crookes
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Servant
Where born: Kilsby, London, England
-- it doesn't say "Kilsby"; the person above him was born in Kilsby, Northamptonshire

Civil parish: Nether Hallam
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow

Greville John Chester 30
Cathr Turner 38
William Crookes 15



Now you just need the certificates to prove me right. ;)

Hi Somerset Girl & Astra

1851 at Princes Street, Mile End Old Town, Stepney
Benjamin Crooks head age 24, labourer, b. Sheffield
Eliza wife 26, b. London
Benjamin son 5, b. Ratcliffe Middlesex
Eliza dau. 1, b. Wapping Middlesex

Marriage page at Shoreditch 1845 has a Benjamin Crooks. Only Eliza on the page is Eliza Patis Miller

1851 census
Piece 1550 Folio 87 Page 35
Head of house is:
James patis age 56, b. Lambeth Surrey
Maria wife 58
and (among others)
William Crookes age 3, grandson, b. Ratcliff Middlesex

WooHoo!

Uh ... Hello, Graham.

You're referring to all the info I posted here maybe?

Or maybe you hadn't seen page 2 ...