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Thanks Patricia. That's wonderful

Possible for Ernest in 1911?:

FLOWER, Mary Head Widow F 71 1840 Somerset Twerton
PATTERSON, Earnest Boarder Single M 24 1887 Railway Engine Fireman Yorkshire Leeds

RG14 Piece: 27170 Reference: RG14PN27170 RG78PN1553 RD501 SD3 ED5 SN28 Registration District: Hunslet Sub District: Rothwell Enumeration District: 5 Parish: Rothwell
Address: 32 Queen St Stourton County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Thanks Patricia. Are you able to find Ernest in 1911? I would be grateful .

I think your right. Although mother kept harping about Galipoli, I realized he could have been the one buried in Alexandria a year ago. The extra detail is good to knowThanks

The first landings at Gallipoli were 25/4/1915, and the last withdrawal was 9/1/1916. Sylvia's post says he died at sea 30/12/1917. This was the day the Aragon was sunk.
There's a grainy photo of the sinking at:

http://www.bedfordregiment.org.uk/5thbn/ssaragon.html

The Osmaniah was sunk 31/12/1917 - see:
http://lewishamwarmemorials.wikidot.com/ship:ht-osmanieh

So it's clear this Ernest died just off Alexandria harbour, not at Gallipoli.


On the other hand, as you well know, Gallipoli was a very traumatic event for Australians and Kiwis. No one else has a national holiday commemorating the landings.

Thus, it doesn't surprise me that some Ozzies (maybe including your mum) would describe anyone dying in the fight against Turkey as "dying at Gallipoli". It's quite possible she didn't know the full details.

re thought the 'missing kid' Perthaps it wasn't Edith. Annie Patterson's father was a Thomas I will look up some of your leads thanks

Thanks so much. Yes I am in Australia. I appear to be edging forward bit by bit. I have had no training searching family history. Just using common sense. Perhaps it about time I did a course. As I do not know Britian, districts/counties are a bit of a mystery. Looked up free bmd and came across a couple of Ediths ( Maud and Gertruded born and died in 1882.) As Ernest and Albert's youngrer sister b 1889 was an Edith, thought this 2nd child might have been an Edith- possibly Maud. Something rings a bell with the name Maud

My mother Joan ( Ernest's niece in Australia) now 92 years old keeps saying he died @ Gallipoli so this Ernest appears to be to most likely do you think so? A medal was sent to his brother Albert ( my grandfather) but this has been lost. Is it possible to print all my replies . I am computer illiterate. I bookmarked it. Many thanks

If you did have to order from the GRO, it's sometimes tricky to decide what the matching entry is. E.g.:

Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1883
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
SMITH John Leeds Southeast Leeds SE/107/58
SMITH John Leeds West Leeds WEST/158/123

Births Mar 1883 (>99%)
Smith John Leeds 9b 432
Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
SMITH John Leeds 9b 518

In order to sort out which is which, click on the page # to get the whole page of names.
These will be entries from one subdistrict, so looking up more unusual names will sort it out.

Here's one such page - it takes no genius to guess the missing local ref:

Births Mar 1883 (>99%)
Butler John William Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/60
HOLMES Henry Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/53
Johnson Catherine Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/61
LOVEDAY Joseph Edwin Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/52
MALTHOUSE Sarah Hannah Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/55
OLDKNOW William Ernest Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/56
SENIOR Edgar Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/54
Smart Samuel Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/57
Smith John Leeds 9b 432 ????????*********
TOWNSEND Danial Leeds 9b 432 SE/107/59

Here, this local RO has indexed by entry # - they usually do so for marrs, but not always for B's & D's.
Sometimes these are by the local page #, (which has 5 entries per page).

Re the missing kid - the obvious first things to do are find out how long the marr lasted, and see if there's any baptisms around, say at:
https://beta.familysearch.org/


Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)
Osborn Samuel Leeds 9b 574
Patterson Charles Henry Leeds 9b 574
WEST Annie Sarah Leeds 9b 574
WETHERELL Emma Leeds 9b 574

Yorkshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1880
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WEST Annie S PATTERSON Charles H St John, Newton Leeds CE54/155

Deaths Mar 1910 (>99%)
Patterson Annie Sarah 32 Leeds 9b 248
[image says a=52 - correct subm'd]


and I found no baptisms. So it's down to the GRO index, looking for matching b's & d's. Well, it is normally, but here we've got a local index too, (but with no deaths transcribed yet).

http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/


A free lookup on Ancestry shows them in the Leeds North subdistrict in 1881, so they're there 1881-1911.
So lets look at births in Leeds North

List of Patterson births rego'ed in Leeds North 1880-1911

Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1880
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1880q3 PATTERSON John A Leeds North Leeds NORT/153/94
1883q4 PATTERSON Thomas H Leeds North Leeds NORT/168/72
1885[1886q1] PATTERSON Harry Leeds North Leeds NORT/177/378
1887q1 PATTERSON Ernest Leeds North Leeds NORT/182/420
1888q2 PATTERSON Albert Leeds North Leeds NORT/187/276
1889[1890q1] PATTERSON Edith Leeds North Leeds NORT/195/408
1891q2 PATTERSON Willie Leeds North Leeds NORT/202/247
1893q3 PATTERSON Thomas Leeds North Leeds NORT/212/272

I've added the quarter of rego - note that this local index indexes births by yob, rather than quarter of registration.

Here's some deaths from FreeBMD - these are for the Leeds whole contemporary rego district.
[YorksBMD uses Leeds to refer to the modern RD, which includes bits of older RDs like Bramley, etc.]

Deaths Dec 1883 (97%)
Patterson Thomas Henry 0 Leeds 9b 302

Deaths Dec 1884 (>99%)
PATTERSON John Alfred 4 Leeds 9b 293

Deaths Sep 1886 (>99%)
Patterson Harry 0 Leeds 9b 285

Deaths Jun 1891 (>99%)
Patterson Willie 0 Leeds 9b 467

Deaths Sep 1893 (>99%)
Patterson Thomas 0 Leeds 9b 330


I can't see any here I can eliminate.


Now you don't say explicitly that you're in Oz, but your post reads like you are. In that case, ordering certs from the local office can often be a problem, but Leeds will take a credit card, so no worries.
Local offices are much more flexible with requests than the GRO.

The Register Office, Leeds Town Hall, The Headrow, Leeds, LS1 3AD.
Tel: 0113 224 3622.
E-mail: [email protected]

From the CWGC site:

Name: PATTERSON
Initials: E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sapper
Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers
Unit Text: 96th Light Railway Operating Coy.
Date of Death: 30/12/1917
Service No: 276404
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: F. 67.
Cemetery: ALEXANDRIA (HADRA) WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY

You can click on the ALEXANDRIA etc link, and see more abt the cemetery, including
"...Most of the burials were made from the Alexandria hospitals, but a number of graves of December 1917 were due to the loss of the troop transports "Aragon" and "Osmanieh" which were sunk by torpedo and mine as they entered the port. ..."



British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
about Ernest Patterson
Name: Ernest Patterson
Regiment or Corps: Royal Engineers, Household Bir
Regimental Number: 276404, 2225

Ernest got the -
British War Medal was awarded to both servicemen and civilians that either served in a theater of war, or rendered service overseas between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. It was also awarded for service in Russia, and post-war mine clearance in the Baltic, the Black Sea, and the Caspian Sea between 1919 and 1920.

There's no WW1 pension nor service record for him - evidently his was amongst the 70% that got destroyed by fire.

EDIT Just seen Sylvia`s post, so some of this is redundant.
NB Sylvia did make a typo regarding the 1914-1915 Star - she should have said the British War Medal.

Could this be Ernest's death, from ancestry.co.uk


UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

Name: Ernest Patterson
Birth Place: Leeds
Residence: Leeds
Death Date: 30 Dec 1917
Death Location: At Sea
Enlistment Location: Wakefield, Yorks
Rank: SPR.
Regiment: Corps of Royal Engineers
Number: 276404
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: At Sea
Comments: 96Th Lt. Rly. Op. Coy., R.E.




It also looks as though he won a medal


British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920

Name: Ernest Patterson
Regiment or Corps: Royal Engineers, Household Bir
Regimental Number: 276404, 2225


He was awarded the British Star .......... awarded to both servicemen and civilians that either served in a theater of war, or rendered service overseas between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918.



I cannot see his service records ....... but only about 30% of the WW1 records survived WW2




sylvia

Thanks so much Patricia. I am overwhelmed by all this help

You have unearthed 2 children I didn't know about. Wonderful!
Thanks a million. How would I find the name of that second child? Thnaks VaIT

This is so exciting Michael. I haven't done this chat thing. before Not very comfortable with it. it must be my age Your information has unearthed a child I didn't know. I notice they are living in the street that Annie Sarah West ( Charles wife) lived in with her parents

Thanks Michael. I have gleaned this informationfrom free bmd and ordered their marriage certificate just yesterday

Thanks Anne marie

Thanks VaIT

Thanks Michael

Yes Anne-Marie. Charles Henry and Annie Sarah
I notice people who have replied have picked this up. The family according to another person reports they appear to have been listed as Pattison in the 1881 census and I have picked up another 2 unknown children . How exciting! I am new at this and not very comfortable with this chat thing