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England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Letitia Barrell
Name: Letitia Barrell
Year of Registration: 1882
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Lambeth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 378

has anyone been able to find the birth of this Annie Brogan/Barrell that her father tried to kill? I've looked but cannot find anything not even an entry on the census!

Whatever next? I have just received the copy of William Thomas Brogan's birth cert and guess who his mother was? Elizabeth Mary Brogan (nee Ord), father William Brogan , labourer. Well done Moody Blue for the information that led me to get the birth cert.

So....................The Census' for Elizabeth Brogan are the correct ones! Where did William (husband) hide himself at census time?

Back to my original thread - where was William Brogan after his 1884 wedding, why is he on no Census, why is there no record of him anywhere, either alive or dead? If he was in a different Poor House to his children and Elizabeth, would he not appear on a Census?

I have sent for Letitia Barrells birth cert today so hope something comes from it - could be interesting. My grandchildren enjoy books calles "Where's Wally?". what about "Where's William ?".

I have obtained Letitia Barrell's Birth Cert - what is really strange is that her father is named as Joseph Barrell, not William Barrell as on her marriage cert!!
There is no Joseph that I can see on any of the Census info for the Barrell household (nor any William).
Any ideas?

Marriages Mar 1881
BARRELL Joseph Bethnal Green 1c 416
Patterson Mary Bethnal Green 1c 416

I actually found the Fulham Poor House record that showed the 2 eldest boys - in April 1891. The record showed that William was not living with Elizabeth - she was at a c/o address in Brixton, her 1 month old daughter being fostered almost from birth.
If I can find no record of William Brogan in a Poor house in April 1891, it is getting ever liklier that he is the William Brogan in Wandsworth Prison when 1891 Census was taken. where else could he be?

This is definitely a difficult one. I must admit I'm stumped. For the record, here is the marriage Moody found for you.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Mary Patterson
Name: Mary Patterson of 33 Betts Street
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Spouse Name: Joseph Barrill, bricklayer of 60 Shop? Street
Spouse Age: 40
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 03 Jan 1881
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Joseph Patterson, dock labourer
Spouse Father Name: William Barrill, salvage ??

Witnesses were Joseph Abeney?, who seemed to be a witness at a few weddings, and Mary Ann Barrell.

Possible Joseph.

1851 census transcription details for: 47, Phoenix Street, Christchurch, Tower Hamlets
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107 Piece: 1543 Folio: 277 Page: 18

Reg. District: Whitechapel Sub District: Spitalfields
Parish: Christchurch Enum. District: 3
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Tower Hamlets
Address: 47, Phoenix Street, Christchurch, Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
BARRELL, William Head Married M 54 1797 Marine Store Dealer
Bethnal Green
BARRELL, Mary Wife Married F 40 1811
St Andrews Holborn
BARRELL, Emma Daughter Unmarried F 14 1837 House Haw Carder
Spitalfields
BARRELL, Maria Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836 House Haw Carder
Spitalfields
BARRELL, Joseph Son Unmarried M 10 1841 Errand Boy
Spitalfields
BARRELL, Richard Son Unmarried M 9 1842 Scholar
Spitalfields
BARRELL, John Son Unmarried M 1 1850
Spitalfields

No mention of a son William, possible father to Letitia/Annie b 1882?

I'm waiting for LMA to get back to me re finding Court info for the William Brogan in Wandsworth and to find out if they have prisoner records for Wandsworth. As far as i can see this is the only way to find out if this is my WB.
The "other" WB at the old Bailey, if the story about Annie being his daughter is true, can only be my William B if Annie was his daughter by someone other than Elizabeth 2 years before they married, if she was born in 1882 - he was in Scotland for the 1881 Census.
Any ideas????