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Thank you Dawn,

My brain hurts now so it must be time for bed. I will have to look at all this in the morrning.

Thanks again
Wendy :)

Clara Jerreat
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Spouse Name: John Vogel
Spouse Age: 31
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 20 Aug 1868
Parish: St Philip, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: John Jerreat
Spouse Father Name: Balsar Vogel


whats interesting is that they lived more or less opposite each other before marriage at no,s 23 and 8 william street stepney john s father was a farmer and claras father is a carpenter

Thank you jax.
Wendy :)

just to add a bit more to send you into full spin i also found this entry for 1871

John T Vogel
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Assistant
Gender: Male
Where born: Germany
Civil Parish: South Bersted
Town: Bognor Regis
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Westhampnett
Sub-registration district: South Bersted
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 173
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Conder 37
Eliza M Conder 32
Alfred H Conder 5
Mary Conder 4
Hartwell Conder 1
Emma Matlock 41
Rhoda J Etherington 24
Mary Kilham 15
Martha Mowntifield 19
Esabella G Richards 22
James Mahoney 1 Year, 2 Months
William Baxter 24
John T Vogel 27
George B Carlton 16
John Settles 15
Ernest E Bray 15
Frederick H Bray 13
Henry B Richards 15
Herbert G Poole 15
Thomas R V S Smith 15
George H Thomas 14
John F Hodgson 14
Robert Hayles 14
George H Mundy 13
Charles T G Eweness 13
Reginald D Smith 73
Robert Miller 13
Francis W Tracy 18
Algernon Leventhorpe 2
Christopher W Hayles 12
Eric F Smith 11
Charles B Lloyd 11
Henry A Parrant 11
Henry G B Rosper 11
Frederick Bonaparte 10
Frederic F Palmer 9
Thomas T Bonhote 5


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Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1113; Folio: 68; Page: 42


if you look down the list of names they seem to tie up with some that have been mentioned earlier but cant figure out how he could have been in two places at once so far apart????

Thank you dawn, my pc will be going full blast tomorrow.
My brain is in a whirl now !! lol. I have a lot to put on my tree when I have the certs

Marriages Sep 1868 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.
Jerreat Clara Mile End 1c 968
Vogel John Mile End 1c 968
.

you're welcome, hope those certs match up!

Thanks tempest,
You seem to have hit the nail on the head. Know wonder I could not find them. I will have to send for the cert.

Wendy:)

1871 cencus

John Vogel
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Clara Vogel
Gender: Male
Where born: Germany
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
Town: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 296
Household Members: Name Age
John Vogel 34
Clara Vogel 23
Louisa Jerrent 14
Samuel Jerrent 10
Louis Vogel 1
John Vogel 3 Months
Adam Hofelar 28


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Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 555; Folio: 80; Page: 48;

ok take you pick,




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Jun 1877 (>99%)
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VOGEL John Benjamin G 73 St. Saviour 1d 48

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Deaths Jun 1879 (>99%)
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Vogel John 50 Pancras 1b 23

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from bmd

Marriages Dec 1886 (>99%)
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Baker Henry Thomas Edmonton 3a 412
VOGEL Clara Harriett Edmonton 3a 412

might be worth getting their wedding cert to see what it has to say

thank you tempest.
Wendy:)

how about this marriage to go with my theory?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915

Name: Clara Harriett Vogel
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Edmonton
County: Essex, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 412

and

Name: Henry Thomas Baker
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Edmonton
County: Essex, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 412

Thank you Dawn a good call

Wendy :)

here's my theory George Vogel's father dies, his mother Clara remarries Henry Baker

George prefers to use his stepfathers name, except on official documents

this might be George's mother and stepfather

1911 census - household transcription
Person: BAKER, Henry Thomas
Address: 43 Rosebery Avenue Manor Park E

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

BAKER, Henry Thomas Head Married 25 years M 72 1839 Retired Old Age Pensioner Allhallows City of Ldn
BAKER, Clara Wife Married F 62 1849 Whitechapel Ldn

Hi tempest,

So why did he marry under the name of Vogel if his name was baker? as his father was John Vogel a baker and was dead in1902, he may have died young and his mother remarried and they were known as Baker?
More puzzels to work out now.

Thank you again
Wendy:)

Very true Dawn found quite a few German sounding names changed to English ones in that census

jax

Hi jax,

It looks good but why the change off name? I think I will have to look for George with a sister Clara in whitechaple.
Were they there when the ripper was around?

Thank you
Wendy :)

ah the 1901 census for the marriage address looks like making more sense now

Address: 72, Milton Avenue, East Ham

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation,
Disability Where Born

BAKER, Henry I Head Married M 61 1840 Bottle Warehouseman City London
BAKER, Clara H Wife Married F 51 1850 Whitechapel London
BAKER, George F Son Single M 25 1876 Telepone Inspector Whitechapel London
BAKER, Clara P Daughter Single F 22 1879 Whitechapel London

most likely reason is that Vogel is a german name and as the war was going on they felt more comfortable that way?