Find Ancestors

Trying to find details of Kathleen Clements, lived in the W.10 area of London in1930's/40's/50's. Kathleen had four brothers Edward (Ted), Thomas, Michael (Mick), Jack and two sisters Elizabeth (Liz) and Doll? Doll married a Nagle and had six children Dolly, Constance, Francis (goo goo) and Bridget and two brothers, Fred and Peter.
Any help in tracing records or details relating to this family would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks,
Chevaun.

This is the only marriage of Clements to Nagle on Ancestry

Name: Mary E Clements
Spouse Surname: Nagle
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1920
Registration district: Kensington
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 501
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Thanks very much Flick, I'll check it out on BMD.
Doll must have been the nickname for Mary.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1246552

Hi Jax,
That was my post from yesterday regarding my great grandfather Frederick Besant who was Kathleens husband. I had some helpful feedback when researching but drew a blank with Kathleens family, which is why I opened up this new thread today.
Chevaun.

Does anyone know why this site keeps returning 0 matches found when I do a search for people in my tree, just after it has told me that there ARE matches for people in my tree! So confusing....

Hi everyone,
I've finally made a breakthrough with my family line and have found my great great grandfather (George Clements, born Rochester, Kent) on the 1901 census, he is married to a women named Mary, born in Wales and is also living with his mother in law a Mary Fleming, born in Clare, Ireland.
I've searched this sites marriage records and also freebmd's site for a marriage record of the two of them (George Clements/Mary Fleming) but have had no success at finding an entry. is anyone able to do a search for this marriage for me?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, I presume that the marriage would have taken place at some time between 1886 and 1901.
Thank you,
Chevaun.

1891

Name: Mary Fleming
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Maurice Fleming
Mother's name: Mary Fleming
Gender: Female
Where born: Tredegar, Wales

Civil Parish: Chiswick
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
Town: Chiswick
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Chiswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Maurice Fleming 50
Mary Fleming 60
Mary Fleming 18 >>>>>>>>>>>>married??
Edward Fleming 15
Patrick Fleming 7
John Fleming 4
George Clements 5 >>>>>>>>>>>son in law should say 21
Elizabeth Clements 7/12


1901

Name: Mary Clements
[Mary Fleming]
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: George Clements
Mother's name: Mary Fleming
Gender: Female
Where born: Treadger, Wales

Civil Parish: Rochester St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: Rochester St Peter
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Rochester and Chatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 118
Household Members: Name Age
George Clements 31
Mary Clements 28
Elizabeth Clements 10
Edward Clements 8
Thomas Clements 5
John Clements 3
Mary Fleming 68


No marriage showing that I can see between these two

I have added an amendment to the age of George on the 1891 census

Thank you very much Jax, this info is much appreciated.
I managed to find them as stated above on the 1901 but had no details with regards to the 1891 so this really helps.... From the info you have found I presume that they were living with Mary's parents and had not married at the time of the birth of their first child Elizabeth, if ever?

It certainly looks that way..

jax

Hmmm... Strange, certainly wasn't expecting that. I would have thought that that kind of thing would have been frowned upon for that time period, especially as the family history suggests that we are all Catholic but I agree, it definatley looks that way, a bit of hidden family scandal!
Thank you so much for amending the entry for George on the 1891 Census, maybe this is why I am unable to find an entry for him.
Can I just ask if you could give me details of who the other entries are on the Census,
Edward Fleming 15
Patrick Fleming 7
John Fleming 4
Are they Mary's siblings?
Also if possible place of Birth for father, Maurice?
I'm sorry to be a pain, it's just that the info would really help me to continue my search.
Much appreciated,
Chevaun.

It may have been frowned upon but it happened all the time, but they must have kept these things quite back then.

Edward is her brother and the other two are children of another sibling I guess as it says grandchildren

jax

This looks like the marriage?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beavis Albert Brentford 3a 182
Clements George Brentford 3a 182 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
FLEMMING Mary Brentford 3a 182 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
OSBORNE Alice Anne Brentford 3a 182

1871

Name: George Clements
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's name: John Clements
Mother's name: Maria Clements
Gender: Male
Where born: Rochester, Kent, England
Civil Parish: St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Rochester
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
John Clements 50 Ag. Lab, b. Littlebourn, Kent, England
Maria Clements 41 b. Rochester, Kent, England
Sarah Clements 22 b. Rochester, Kent, England
William Clements 12 b.Bekesbourne, Kent, England
Mary Ann Clements 6 b.Rochester, Kent, England
Alfred Clements 4 b. Rochester, Kent, England
George Clements 1 b. Rochester, Kent, England
Edward Neave 41 Boarder

1861

Name: John Clements
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maria Clements
Gender: Male
Where born: Littlebourn, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Rochester St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Rochester
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 420
Household Members: Name Age
John Clements 38
Maria Clements 31
Emma Clements 16
Sarah Clements 12
James Clements 9
Thos Clements 6
William Clements 3


Daughter Sarah in 1851?

Name: Sarah Clements
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Rochester, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Rochester St Margaret
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Rochester
ED, institution, or vessel: 3a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 150
Household Members: Name Age
James Beaney 61
Margaret Beaney 60
Maria Clements 24
Emma Beany 7
Sarah Clements 3


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1848 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BEANEY Maria Medway 5 414
Clements John Medway 5 414

well done Rootgatherer

No scandal then!! looks like she was only 16 when they married

jax

Thank you so much Rootgatherer for all your research!
I'm so happy to have a match for a marriage between George and Mary as they went on to have many more children (including my great grandmother) and I was surprised to think that they wouldn't have officially committed to each other in their lifetime.... I will go ahead and buy the certificate.
Thanks once again Rootgatherer and also Jax for taking the time out of your day to assist my search, I'm really so grateful.
Apologies for my delayed response this afternoon, my wireless mouse ran out of batteries and I had to dash to Sainsburys to replace them!
Best Wishes to you both,
Chevaun.

Hi Rootgatherer,
Just wanted to say Thank you and well done, I bought the marriage certificate of Mary Flemming and George Clements, which you found the reference for, it arrived this morning and it was the right entry... Mary WAS only 16 when they married! Thanks ever so much again, I had no luck finding the entry when I searched myself!
Best wishes,
Chevaun.

Chevaun, Thank you for taking the time to let us know that it was the correct marriage certificate. It is always a p;easure to help and gratifying to know of a positive outcome.

Good luck with your research.

PS, I don't think we answered your question about where Maurice was born - the 1891 census (the only one I can see him on at the moment) says born: Tredegar, Wales. According to the 1891 the whole family were born there.

1881 - different birthplace - and probably more likely?

Name: Maurice Flemming
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary Flemming
Gender: Male
Where born: Cork, Ireland

Civil Parish: Ealing
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: 10 Baileys Row
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Labourer

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Brentford
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Maurice Flemming 44 Labourer
Mary Flemming 44 Garden woman, b. Limerick
Ellen Flemming 19 Tredegar
Margaret Flemming 16 Tredegar
John Flemming 14 Kent, Belvedere
Thomas Flemming 10 Tredegar
Mary Flemming 8 Tredegar
Edward Flemming 5 Middlesex, Brentford