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you have all been a great help
Thank you

absolutely.....you can't hide from me grandad!!!!!

There you go Mark, and you come along a hundred years later and find their guilty secret out !

?First marriage

Marriages Jun 1890 (>99%)
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>>>>>>>HIBBITT Ellen Ashton 8d 740
Meek Betsy Ashton 8d 740
>>>>>>>MORRISSEY James Ashton 8d 740
Rogerson Edmund Ashton 8d 740

?Deaths of James Jnr & 1st Husband

Deaths Mar 1902 (>99%)
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Morrissey James 4 St. Alban's 3a 465

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Deaths Sep 1902 (>99%)
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Morrissey James Gabriel 35 St. Albans 3a 335

?Death of Ernest

Deaths Sep 1902 (>99%)
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Morrissey Ernest 2 St. Albans 3a 331

Also my great grandparents lied on 1901 and 1911 census as they actually married in 1914

1901 Census

Name: Mary Morrisey
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: James Morrisey
Mother's name: Ellen Morrisey
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: St Peter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Albans
Sub-registration district: St Albans
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
James Morrisey 37
>>>>>>>>Ellen Morrisey 35 born 1866 Derby
Mary Morrisey 10
Lily Morrisey 8
Ellen Morrisey 6
Catherine Morrisey 5
James Morrisey 3
Ernest Morrisey 1

thanks for your input sylvia.
Greatly appreciated

thanks for the input Joy and Lyndsey. It's much clearer now. It's good to know i can learn more on here.
Thank you
Mark

no, they have not changed their names!


they just were not married!



Your grandfather was registered under the name Nall(e)y .................. and I think is therefore legimately called that


BUT his mother and father were not married.



Just be grateful that you know who his father was .......... most of us do not know the names of the fathers of illegitimate children


I've discovered that one of my great aunts ahd at least 5 children, all raised by her mother, and no father's names known for any of them!




sylvia

Mark


If possible, I think more people lived common law back then than do now

........ divorce was almost impossible for an ordinary person to get because it was soooooo expensive, and the grounds for divorce were so limited.




We all have couples who lived together using the same name, but the marriage has never been found!



What we are saying about that 1911 census is that Willie Morrissey is YOUR grandfather, and it now looks as though he had a full sister Ruth


Ellen lied on the birth certificate, saying she was married, and had the name Nall(e)y ..... but just couldn't lie on the census!




sylvia

ah i see lindsey
so it is very feasible that patrick and ellen also told lies about who was who at this address and that she was a widow. Could it be that willie morrissey is actually william nalley and they have changed names to prevent too much info being given

They're telling lies. They did so back then, on birth's as well as marriages. For example I know my Great-Grandmother was born illegitimately yet she gives herself a father at time of marriage, she had a rather unique surname. Another relative combines his step-father's first name with his own surname to give himself a father, he was also born illegitimate.

I have Howard Cousin's birth certificate which confirms his mother as Nellie Jerram. In 1901 Nellie is listed as Cornelious's "Housekeeper".

They told lies !

how can they have been married for 11 years in 1911 when it says their marriage was in 1914?
This has confused me

No William Morrisey born c1908 Ashton under Lyme on FreeBMD. No Ruth Morrisey either, but there is.



Births Dec 1909 (>99%)
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Nally Ruth Ashton 8d 453

Births Dec 1909 (>99%)
Nally Ruth Ashton 8d 453

no doubt another morrissey nally child

Case in point

1911 for one of my lot.

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COUSINS, Cornelius Head Married M 40 1871 Boot Repaired Nottingham VIEW
COUSINS, Nellie Wife Married
11 years F 36 1875 Lace Hand Nottingham VIEW
COUSINS, Elise Daughter F 3 1908 Nottingham VIEW
COUSINS, Harold Son M 2 1909 Nottingham VIEW
COUSINS, Ivy Daughter F 0 (4 MONTHS) 1911 Nottingham VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20518 Reference:
RG14PN20518 RG78PN1229 RD430 SD2 ED5 SN76

Registration District:
Nottingham Sub District:
Nottingham South East Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Nottingham

Address:
12 Vassal Street Off Soutwell Road Nottingham County:
Nottinghamshire

Their marriage>

Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)
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Jerram Nellie M Cousins Nottingham 7b 930

well solely on the info there that ellen is a widow and there is already a son (willie) born in 1908 which would coincide with my grandfather

why discount it Mark???


it seems perfectly feasible


just they weren't married, at least at the time of the 1911!


They could also have moved in the 3 years after his birth


at the very least ........... keep it in case it turns out to be correct



One thing you will learn in this hobby is NEVER EVER discount anything!


and always be prepared for a surprise


sylvia