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Thanks to both Rootgatherer and Alviegal for your answers. also for the most recent news through my genesreunited site on the younger and more recent Fail/White families.
Very interesting to think that I have relatives in that area that none of us knew about, mind you distant but our connection is John Ross my great grandfather.
Linda I live in Victoria Canada so have no access to the Tesco Clubcard, I wish! Anyway both of you it is all very interesting and I will continue on with it, in my slow usual way.
anything else that comes your way will be most welcome.
thanks again, I have printed off all of this info and will be using it in future to help me along.
Christina

I have pm'd you with a possible marriage and children for Irene but you would need the marriage certificate to confirm.
There are a few Mary Fails around so can't confirm anything about her.

I don't see a marriage for Isobel but there is this death. The date of birth for this one is maybe a month or two early to match the birth that you have found but the year and the area fit - given there doesn't seem to be a marriage for her.

Name: Isobel Fail
Birth Date: 8 Aug 1928
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 1991
Age at death (estimated): 62
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Tyne and Wear
Volume: 2
Page: 616

Alviegal I must admit I have not looked at those sites you mentioned since my return from out of town, and been feeling under the weather.
I have looked at those sometimes in the past, and will check out some of the other FAIL family members, the females being a bit more difficult. thanks for George and Sydney! Why is it we have the ridiculous law of women changing their names upon marriage, makes life for us more difficult.
I have gone back to my maiden name of Ross.
thanks again.
I was thinking of putting a note out re the surnames of ROSS, DALLAS, THWAITES and FAIL to see if anyone answers that, what do you think?

Hi Christina, sorry to hear you've not been well. Hope things improve for you. Have you signed up to one of the sites yet?

Possible.


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Sydney Fail
Name: Sydney Fail
Birth Date: 3 Sep 1930
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 1991
Age at death (estimated): 60
Registration district: North Tyneside
Inferred County: Tyne and Wear
Volume: 2
Page: 979


???

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about George Fail
Name: George Fail
Birth Date: 24 Dec 1920
Death Registration Month/Year: Mar 1984
Age at death (estimated): 63
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Tyne and Wear
Volume: 2
Page: 529

I am back home again, though have not been 100% healthy this week so far.
However anything new on this front from anyone? FAIL family, I wonder if anyone has any data on them ?
Christina

thank you for this advice too.
I am never very sure of the English stuff cos I don't have a lot going on there..thanks for Margaret's death date. I have John's certificate, I think someone with free time on there must have gotten it for me at some time?
do you have access to my tree on genereuntied?
I am hoping with the FAIL family coming into play now I might get some connection from that line.
I have been trying to get onto Genes all day and just now managed to, it has been saying it is upgrading and not available,,,
I am off tomorrow for a week out of town, but will continue this when I return
thanks again Liz
Christina

I would not advise you to buy credits on this site. Ancestry usually have a free 2 week trial which you could take advantage of, and then buy credits as necessary. http://landing.ancestry.co.uk/intl/uk/gettingstarted.aspx
Findmypast also do the same. http://www.findmypast.co.uk/getting-started.jsp

Yes, Mary Jane had been married 18 years.


1891 census transcription details for: 16, Newcombe Street, Elswick, Newcastle On Tyne
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 4196 Folio: 120 Page: 23

Reg. District: Newcastle upon Tyne Sub District: Westgate
Parish: Elswick Enum. District: 29
Ecclesiastical District: St Aidan City/Municipal Borough: Newcastle on Tyne
Address: 16, Newcombe Street, Elswick, Newcastle On Tyne
County: Northumberland
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
ROSS, John Head Married M 70 1821 Labourer
Scotland
ROSS, Margaret Wife Married F 55 1836
Scotland
ROSS, Mary J Daughter Single F 22 1869 Dressmaker
Scotland



Possible death?


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Margaret Dallas Ross
Name: Margaret Dallas Ross
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Year of Registration: 1893
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 57
District: Newcastle Upon Tyne
County: Northumberland, Tyne and Wear
Volume: 10b
Page: 44


Liz

to add further to this thread, Mary Jane Ross had an older brother George born in Newcastle upon Tyne 1866, to John and Margaret, nee Dallas, it would be interesting to try and find him and his descendants, if he had any. Can anyone help with this thread?
christina

this is all so much great information Alviegal,
I ""found" the children, or some of them, possibly all of
Ada and George A Fail's children.

George JanFebMar of 1921
Mary JanFebMar of 1923
Irene AprMayJun of 1926
Isobel OctNovDec of 1928
Sydney OctNovDec of 1930

the exciting thing is some of them may be alive.
This has been a good day thanks to you.
Does not get me to my very past ancestors but bring me up to date with some of the latest ones, thanks again
Christina

thank you Alviegal, I have just been looking on this site without paying as yet, to find deaths of George, Mary Jane and Ada, also marriages for Ada. Tell me the best way to go about this please. I thought of buying some credits to look, please tell me the best way to do this as I have no actual dates and could be going on and on...
by the way it says Mary Jane Wife married 18 years F 42. does that mean she has been married 18 years?
What about her mother Margaret Ross nee Dallas what is the best way to find her.
Mary Jane's father John Ross died in 1896 in that area, got all of that but lost track of his wife, his 2nd wife, his first was my Great Grandmother, all in scotland, but I would like to keep track of Margaret too somehow??
thanks for any help in looking
Christina

Ada's marriage? Notice the volume numbers are different, possibly the h should be a b.

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Ada M M Thwaites
Name: Ada M M Thwaites
Spouse Surname: Fail
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
Registration county (inferred): Northumberland
Volume Number: 10h
Page Number: 145


and I think this is her husband.

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about George A Fail
Name: George A Fail
Spouse Surname: Thwaites
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
Registration county (inferred): Northumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 145


This is the link for freebmd. It does not have this marriage on it yet though.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl


and her death.


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Ada Marquirita M Fail
Name: Ada Marquirita M Fail
Birth Date: 2 Jan 1895
Death Registration Month/Year: 1980
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Tyne and Wear
Volume: 2
Page: 0750

Here it is. They only had the 1 child.


1911 census transcription details for: 166 Doncaster Road Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN30567 RG78PN1752 RD558 SD2 ED10 SN392

Reg. District: Newcastle upon Tyne Sub District: St Andrew
Parish: Jesmond Enum. District: 10
Address: 166 Doncaster Road Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
County: Northumberland
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
THWAITES, G Head Married M 45 1866 brass Finisher Barton L E St Yorks
THWAITES, Mary Jane Wife Married
18 years F 42 1869 Montrose St LD
THWAITES, Ada Marguerite Mary Daughter Single F 16 1895 At Home Newcastle on Tyne

thanks Rootgatherer, so it appears she only ever had one child, the daughter Ada born 1895. I should try and find her marriage and death, can you help me go about that please?
I am used to Scottish enquiries more, thanks Christina
also how do I find the free facility?

Christina, I don't have a sub to view the 1911 but this is using the free search facility.

HOUSEHOLD THWAITES MARY JANE F 1869 42 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland

living with

HOUSEHOLD THWAITES ADA MARGUERITE MARY F 1895 16 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland
HOUSEHOLD THWAITES G M 1866 45 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland

to add to this query I have seen Mary Jane Thwaites nee ROSS on the 1911 census, does anyone have access to the English census without having to buy in? I am not sure how they work on this site other than paying for a months looking.
Mary Jane born 1869 in Montrose living in Newcastle upon Tyne, can anyone open that up and find out who lives with her at that time?
My Aunt Margaret Ann Ross was also born in Newcastle upon Tyne, family must have been visiting, she was born 1891, could anyone find her birth certificate? I have the register notice 10b 99 registered April, May, June of 1891. I know her birth date is April 24th 1891.
Thanks for any help

Yes these are both my John Ross born in Turriff, 1814, I believe, I have these documents also. The latter one is John and his sons after the death of my Great Grandmother Hannah nee Douglas, she died in Aberdeen in 1858 age 32.
John remarried a Margaret Dallas in Aberdeenshire and had 2 children as stated.
Do you see what I mean about John lying about his age, at least I think he has on numerous occasions...he states 64 years married about 1817..? On his death certificate 1896 his age is 75, therefore being born 1821?! I have a birth certificate stating George Ross and Agnes Thomson having a son John born 26th May 1814.
I have a printed Post Office certificate of 1853/54 showing JOHN ROSS as a grocer/wine and spirit dealer living at 25 Windmillbrae, Aberdeen, this is the same address on the marriage certificate to Hannah Douglas in 1852.
On John's marriage certificate to Margaret Dallas, they were married in Newcastle upon Tyne 16 Feb 1866, John age 48 widower, grocer and provision dealer, Margaret age 32 spinster, George Ross father Coachman, deceased. witnesses John Ross junior. ( my grandfather, who at that time would be 14 years old, ) and Mary Sigsmith.
Margaret's father Donald Dallas, tailor.
I went on to find Mary Jane the daughter born in Montrose 1869 in various census in Newcastle upon Tyne, married to George Thwaites, with a daughter Ada born 1895, that is as far as I got with this family.
I have not been able to trace Mary Jane's brother George who was born in Newcastle upon Tyne 1866, though I do have him on 1881 census, age 13 scholar.
John Ross is 64 in the 1881 census born Turriff, Lab Gun Factory is where he is working. Yes I see "rootgatherer has that information too.

Is this your John in 1881 please?

Name: John Ross
Age: 64
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Margaret Ross
Gender: Male
Where born: Turriff, Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Elswick
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street address: 16 Newcombe St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Lab Gun Factory

Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Westgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Ross 64
Margaret Ross 45 b. Aberdeenshire
George Ross 13 b. Newcastle on Tyne
Mary Jean Ross 11 b. Scotland



Possibly John before his re-marriage?

1861

Name: John Ross
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Turriff, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 218
Registration district: Longside
Civil Parish: Longside
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Inn
Occupation: Innkeeper
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 45
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1861_30
Household Members: Name Age
John Ross 45
John M Ross 8
James D Ross 5
Ann M Ogston 19
Barbara Watt 26

Christina, do you have any of these people anywhere in a census anytime that you could copy here to show us? Details as reported in censuses can help track family members. You have info that no one else has. You should give it all.

I can't find son John in the 1851, for instance, although he married in 1852. What was his occupation, as well?

Ancestry shows one Ross in 1851 who was born in Turiff.

Name: John Ross
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1795
Relationship: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Turiff, Aberdeenshire
Parish Number: 202
Civil Parish: Huntly
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Richmond Lane
Occupation: Waiter

Alexander Ross 27 - saddle master (maker?)
Jane Ross 32
Agnes Ross 2 MO
John Ross 56

It doesn't really make sense that he's the brother of someone born 1824. The images can't be seen at Ancestry. Father, maybe? Possibly a brother of your George in that case?

Another possible sibling, in 1841 (or cousin ...):

Name: James Ross
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1781
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Turriff
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Crossfields
Occupation: Ag Lab


Is there actually reason to believe that George and Agnes were still living in 1841?

hello rootgatherer, you will see my reply about John's marriages I wrote earlier.
I have also determined that the George and Agnes from Fife are NOT my ancestors, their children were not the same children, no names similiar.
John Married Margaret Dallas in 1866 near Longside Aberdeenshire
thanks
Christina