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I wish this thing would give me a link to say someones posted! yes my dad is robert brian williams 1927

Well, I wasn't going to post it, since it didn't seem relevant. ;) It was just Sophie's father's age I was trying to figure out. The marriage was right after the 1911.

Did she marry under Vaughan?

Better Janey?

Same man going out that came in (I think)and the latest I can find for him on FMP.
Came in and went out a few times up till 1938.
Name: William PRATT
Date of departure: 5 July 1938
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Montreal, Canada
Passenger destination: Montreal, Canada
Date of Birth: 1865 (calculated from age)
Age: 73
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Retired

Edits
Im off to my nice warm bed..~~~~

Name: Ruby Victoria Williams
Birth Date: 15 Mar 1908
Death Registration Month/Year: 1977
Registration district: Knowsley
Inferred County: Merseyside
Volume: 36
Page: 0231

but I can't match up a marriage.

Hmm, maybe. Sophie's dad was born 1927? Ruby married under her stepfather's surname.

So in 1950, Ruby's dad was about 23, leaving that narrow window if it was WH Pratt who visited.


Ah, North Gower. ;)

Some years ago, I was driving in the area with my BFF, and we stopped in North Gower for ice cream, said to be the best in the county. I mentioned this to somebody, an older man local to that area, when I was talking to him later. I'd had ice cream in North Gow-er, the village name on the road sign. He looked at me condescendingly (joking, of course), and said Please: North GORE. So now you know. We pronounce things funny over here too. ;)

Name: William Henry Pratt
Spouse Name: Edith A. Hill
Marriage Date: 2 Jan 1895
Marriage Location: Malakoff
Delay Year: 1895


Name: Wm Henry Pratt
Birth Place: North Gower
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Father Name: Francis Pratt
Mother Name: Sophia Mcrea
Spouse Name: Edith A Hill
Spouse's Age: 29
Spouse Birth Place: Marlborough
Spouse Father Name: John Hill
Spouse Mother Name: Lydia Brownlee
Marriage Date: 2 Jan 1895
Marriage Location: Carleton
Marriage County: Carleton

Uh oh, I was doing it wrong. "My father" is the son of the girl born in Canada in 1908. So he's a generation later than I was calculating.

mgnv gave the gravestone pic:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
~snaylor/OntarioGraveMarkers/Rideau/Malakoff/P7100213.JPG

Edith died 1935, William died 1950.

Ruby was born 1908. 1950 - 1908 = 42. There's a slim window of opportunity for Sophie's dad to be playing football while William Pratt was still alive.

But wait, I am so confused.

Ruby born 1908 was Sophie's grandmother -- her father's mother? So her father was his grandfather, not great-grandfather.

From the gravestone, both Pratts were born 1865 more or less. William Henry Pratt and Edith A Hill married in Ontario, but I can't see when. For births in Carleton Cty with parents Pratt and Hill, we get only Lydia and Norman, no older children. I wonder whether the Pratt-Hill marriage was a second marriage?

Here they are in 1891:

Wm H Pratt
Carleton, Ontario
dob abt 1866

Edith A Hill
Carleton, Ontario
dob abt 1865

They both seem to be unmarried.


We don't know when Sophie's father was born / played football. Sophie -- ?? You should give the info to start with!

But if Ruby was Sophie's father's mother, wouldn't the person who visited have been his grandfather, i.e. Ruby's father?

There is this one.

Name: William Pratt
Birth Date: abt 1866
Age: 63
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Arrival Date: 10 Jul 1929
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship Name: Montclare

Making for ..73 Benson Avenue,East Ham E6.

Just says he is retired.

All others that have the name William or William H or Wm so far are not farmers or are the wrong ages etc,so not him as far as I can see.
Easier if we knew when he would have been coming in of course,and did he go back out ?as I can search passengers leaving England on FMP for him as well.
But as he is of Irish ancestry he may have come into Ireland and just got on a ferry over here? Same going back to Canada,if he did return there.

1911 census transcript shows August 1865 for WHP.

When was William H Pratt born?
1865?

That's interesting. Do you have some idea what year it might have been when that happened -- do you know when your father played? Incoming passenger lists to the UK might tell something.

On an exact search for William H Pratt entering the UK 1928-1948, I get:

William H Pratt age year date location Plymouth, England
William H Pratt age year date location Southampton, England

but I can'ts see those details. Except he (or they) apparently wasn't travelling from Canada.

If archie maloney did exist and he was english he would have been on the births register in england which he isn't although there is one in hampshire? but as far as I can see he never went to canada.

Another thing which makes me think that wh pratt may be the father is that he only died in 1950. My father (who now has dementia) played football for Liverpool. He said years ago that his great Grandfather came over and watched him play. WH Pratts wife was dead by then so could it be that he was the father?

This is my suspicion as well! I can not find archie maloney anywhere! and interesting the Pratts refused to pay her expenses whilst she was in hospital!

http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/children/Organizations/salvation.html

The Salvation Army was helping people to emigrate to Canada late in the nineteenth century. Some young men were first trained on their farm and then assisted to Canada. The numbers grew substantially and by the turn of the century this organization was playing a major roll in the emigration of families and children.

In 1914, G. Bogue Smart, Chief Inspector of British Immigrant Children and Receiving Homes, wrote in his report:

During the past year the Salvation Army has inaugurated their work of juvenile emigration. At Indian Road West, Toronto, their Home for the reception of children is under efficient supervision. The children were found well cared for and comfortably settled.

Denis Crane in 1912 stated:

The Army, it should be added, every year emigrates a good many children for adoption. These are, of course, all under fourteen years of age, and some are as young as five or six. The demand, which is greater than the supply, is more for girls than for boys; which speaks well as to the motives of the adoptive parents. On the Army's side, the work is extremely well done. Children remain for a week or so in the Receiving Home, where they recuperate after their long journey and acquire good domestic habits, and then go on two months' trial before the legal documents are signed. (Denis Crane, John Bull's Surplus Children, London:1915, pp. 64-65).

=======================================

If Archie existed, and if he was transported by the Sally Ann, he might have come as an actual farm labourer, and not a child migrant.

That website has a request for info about any children brought here by the Salvation Army. I wonder whether he might have info to share?


http://www.salvationarmy.org/heritage.nsf/titles/Emigration

If you are searching for information regarding a person who you believe to have emigrated with the Army’s assistance, we need to know their name , and as much genealogical information as possible. If this type of information is not known, The Family Records Centre is a useful contact at 1 Myddleton Street, London EC1R 1UW.

As well as knowing the date the person travelled, it is also important that we know the age they were at that time, as different emigration schemes applied to different age groups.

The thing is, though, that this seems to have been a tale told to Barnardo's (presumably so they would ship her back, the return policy apparently including "no unmarried girls and their offspring").

"The boy" Archie Maloney -- that's from the Barnard's file? -- must have referred to someone.

"another boy employed by Mrs Pratt, English and sent by the salvation army (I think hard to read)"

No, they didn't -- that had actually been my very first thought (it having been what happened to my gr-grm, with my gr-aunt the result) -- but see the household in 1901 and 1911 on page 1 -- children were quite young, undoubtedly Margaret was a "mother's help" as it seems to be a farm, and the young men/boys they took in were farm labourers.

I am in Sylvias camp after reading this thread through.
But it may have been one of the Pratts sons,if they had a son old enough to have fathered the child..

Hmm, one maybe interesting thing in 1911:

1911 / Ontario / Carleton / 21 Marlborough / page 10

Maloney James M Labourer Widowed 1856 55

in a Clark household.

The Pratts are at:

1911 / Ontario / Carleton / 22 Marlborough / page 2


So far I can't find that James in 1901 to see what family he might have.

The only James Maloney family I can find at either AG or Ancestry is a James Maloney in Hintonburgh (part of Ottawa) with daughters, but that's a different one.

There's certainly that possibility, Sylvia; it happened. We do seem to have a serial-"fostering" family, and you never know.

I noted the Thomas Mullen in the household in 1911 too. Mullen, Maloney ...

Also, I don't get the reference to Archie being from a farming family in Canada. If that's the case, why are we looking for info about him on the other side of the ocean?

If there was communication with the family in Canada later, Archie would not seem to have left Canada. Which means he should be in the 1911 census. Which he isn't.

I'm a bl***y suspicious person


laying out facts as gathered from reading this thread ..................

she's a servant

she gets pregnant

the family send her to a home to have the baby

she maintains contact with the family after returning to England


when the child passes her exams, she asks the family for money


they say No, but send the child to Canada





My suspicious mind says ................


the W H Pratt is the father of that child


and Archie was a convenient fiction ........ if he existed, he became the fall guy





sylvia

yes got loads on Margaret I'm really just interested in this archie maloney guy. Who he was? did he stay in canada? did he have anymore children?

I only obtained the barnardos records this week which gave me the name

The danish thing was the story Margaret told the family, which we now know isn't true.